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todd49401 · 08-16-2011, 12:25 AM

I have my basic recipe for a holiday ale, but have some questions about additions.

Recipe:
12 oz. caramel 80L
4 oz. chocolate malt
4 oz. black patent malt
6.3 lbs gold malt syrup- 60 min
1 oz. Brewers gold bittering hops- 60 min
1 oz. Willamette hops- 15 min
1 lb. honey- 15 min
1 oz. dried ginger root- 60 min
At flameout:
1 tsp each of cinnamon, ginger, nutmeg, coriander
1 oz. bitter orange peel

I am wondering if I should add more grains- I have 1 lb. dark crystal malt available...should I add that in addition to what I'm already using?

I also have .5 oz. of Northern Brewer mulling spices- I have heard bad things about them, but if I add for 60 minutes will it mellow the spices out while providing flavor?

Should I add more cinnamon? I want a nice bold holiday spice flavor but not too similar to a pumpkin spice because I already have one fermenting.

I also have 1 oz. of US Goldings hops, so if I added more grains, should I add the extra oz. of hops?

I have another spiced winter ale fermenting that used Nottingham's. Should I use the yeast cake from that or use a Scottish Ale yeast that I have available...

Thanks everyone!

Brew_4iT · 08-16-2011, 12:41 AM

base grains are more fermentable and will add more towards your gravity than specialty grains. That is why you would pick up the tastes from the specialty grains and is used mostly for flavoring. Seems to be a good balance, I would throw another lb. of 2 row with the specialty grains. Usually 9 lbs in total of LME DME and grains will get you around a 4.5- 5% abv beer. With a pound of honey it is going to finish pretty dry.

jeburgdo · 08-16-2011, 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brew_4iT

base grains are more fermentable and will add more towards your gravity than specialty grains. That is why you would pick up the tastes from the specialty grains and is used mostly for flavoring. Seems to be a good balance, I would throw another lb. of 2 row with the specialty grains. Usually 9 lbs in total of LME DME and grains will get you around a 4.5- 5% abv beer. With a pound of honey it is going to finish pretty dry.

9lbs of LME or DME gets you a 4.5-5% beer?? That all depends on batch size. I assume he's going for 5 gallons. Thinking back to my extract days it was usually two 3.3lb bags of LME for me to get a 5% beer.

Beersmith estimates the above to be 1.058 for the OG on 5 gallons. I usually think of winter warmers as being bigger so another pound or two of base malt wouldn't hurt. Also, usually, they are maltier and sweeter, so I would bump the crystal up to at least 1 pound.

Also, I wouldn't boil the spices for 60 minutes. I've heard of some people doing it, but it can also give it a tannin taste I've heard. Most people boil for the last 5-10 minutes. As far as hops and yeast, that's up to you! Both Notty and Scottish ale would work well here, and the hop level is fine here, but if you wanted some more hops, US goldings would work well with what you have.

Brew_4iT · 08-16-2011, 04:27 AM

you get bags of LME??

Well I've never just used LME find that kind of funny... but I suppose using just concentrated liquid extract would take less. I wasn't factoring the honey, obviously more fermentable and would find a higher gravity with a pound of that, If he wants it to finish more dry that's fine.

General rule of thumb even talked with a guy at a good LHBS store about it who knows his stuff. Every time I use beer calculus, and finish a beer I find generally around 9 lbs. of grains with some extract (sometimes use a can of 3.3) comes out to that.

Sure you weren't adding a pinch or two of sugar?

jeburgdo · 08-16-2011, 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brew_4iT

you get bags of LME??

...

General rule of thumb even talked with a guy at a good LHBS store about it who knows his stuff. Every time I use beer calculus, and finish a beer I find generally around 9 lbs. of grains with some extract (sometimes use a can of 3.3) comes out to that.

Sure you weren't adding a pinch or two of sugar?

When I did extract recipes (coincidentally, I'm back to PM from AG for now), American Brewmasters in Raleigh, NC had 3.3 foil bags of "American Classic" LME which I had great success with. I would usually add 1 lb of crystal too, so it was 6.6lbs LME + 1lb of crystal for a 5% beer (OG between 1.050-1.054, FG between 1.012-1.018). The only sugar I used was priming for bottle conditioning.

As far as the OP's question, LME is less concentrated than DME, and adding honey will (as you said) increase the OG but it will dry it out, so bump up the crystal. Still, adding another pound of extract or base malts wouldn't be a bad idea (as both Brew_4iT and I have agreed).

Brew_4iT · 08-16-2011, 07:09 AM

Yeah I'm actually wrong about the LME, it is actually less. I've read that ratio before but got that mixed up it goes 1 lb of grain = .75 lbs LME or .6 lbs DME. Sorry about the confusion.

I think the beercalculus is off a little bit too I use, coincidentally just did a batch of braggot and the OG was supposed to be around 1.060 ended up around 1.080. Actually thought it would come out less and then whoa geez!? I even adjusted the attenuation for the yeast and honey I'm using, but it is free software. Looks like I'm going to start using ibrewmaster more on my ipod.

todd49401 · 08-16-2011, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brew_4iT

base grains are more fermentable and will add more towards your gravity than specialty grains. That is why you would pick up the tastes from the specialty grains and is used mostly for flavoring. Seems to be a good balance, I would throw another lb. of 2 row with the specialty grains. Usually 9 lbs in total of LME DME and grains will get you around a 4.5- 5% abv beer. With a pound of honey it is going to finish pretty dry.

Ok, you lost me at base grains vs. specialty grains...All I know is that I have grains and I steep at 150 degrees for 20 minutes...which are considered base in my recipe?

So I should use the extra 1 lb grains (total of 36 oz.) to counter the dryness the honey may create? Should I just skip the honey and add another 1-2 lbs of dry malt extract? I'd like a big beer- not 5-6%...I'd like at least 7, preferably 8%. The holiday ale I did a couple weeks ago had an OG of 1.076 using Nottingham's.

I am probably going to skip the mulling spices...don't want to risk ruining a batch given all of the poor reviews. Since I'm skipping those should I up the cinnamon, ginger, nutmeg, and bitter orange at flame out?

Sorry, I know- a lot of questions...but thanks for the replies so far!

jeburgdo · 08-16-2011, 03:26 PM

Base malts in your case would be 2-row. If you want 7% or more you'll need to add more fermentables for sure. If you have some DME, try something like this:

1.00 lb Light Dry Extract (8.0 SRM) Dry Extract 9.05 %
6.30 lb Pale Liquid Extract (8.0 SRM) Extract 57.01 %

1.50 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM) Grain 13.57 %
1.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 9.05 %
0.125 lb Black (Patent) Malt (500.0 SRM) Grain 1.13 %
0.125 lb Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 1.13 %

1.00 lb Honey (1.0 SRM) Sugar 9.05 % (at flameout)

1.00 oz Brewer's Gold [8.00 %] (60 min) Hops 25.9 IBU
1.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (20 min) Hops 9.8 IBU
1.00 oz Willamette [5.50 %] (5 min) Hops 3.5 IBU

You have lots of spices already, I wouldn't increase that. This gets an OG estimated by Beersmith of 1.075, so if you want it even higher toss in more DME. You'll want to steep the grains a little longer this time. (If you were up to it, you could switch out some extract for more 2-row and try a partial mash: http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/easy-partial-mash-brewing-pics-75231/) At this point it would be good to add the ounce of Goldings hops too.

todd49401 · 08-16-2011, 05:25 PM

Ok, I have some dme sitting around so I'll add another lb of that. I'll pick up some pale malt 2 row as well. Thanks for that link, it looks interesting!

If I don't do the partial mash and just steep the current grains, would I steep for 30 min instead of 20?

With the extra grains and another lb of dme, will it become more malty rather than dry? I'd like a good malt character.

I know you said don't increase spices, but say I do the 60 min dry ginger root boil, should I substitute the 1 tsp of ginger powder at end for maybe some allspice to get some clove character? Last year I made a winter warmer but the clove was too much.

Brew_4iT · 08-16-2011, 06:25 PM

Just be prepared for a little extra aging since your beer will probably finish over 7% abv. maybe even 8% per 12 oz volume if you have a medium high attenuating yeast. You looking for a strong ale that will take atleast 3 months of conditioning? Is this for christmas or for fall?