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Old 01-15-2011, 09:35 PM   #1
dirty_martini
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Default Carapils vs flaked barley vs flaked oats vs wheat

All are supposed to add body, head retention, and lead to a creamier mouthfeel.

so why do we only use flaked barley in stouts, oats in wits and stouts, and wheat in well....wheat beers.

is there any reason we should be using carapils instead of oats or flaked barley in an IPA to add mouthfeel, body, and head retention without adding significant flavor other than maybe clarity? I keep thinking about using flaked oats or barley in all the styles I use carapils in just to see how it affects it.

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Old 01-15-2011, 09:38 PM   #2
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I use flaked barley in a lot of my ales with great results,

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Old 01-15-2011, 09:42 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirty_martini View Post
All are supposed to add body, head retention, and lead to a creamier mouthfeel.

so why do we only use flaked barley in stouts, oats in wits and stouts, and wheat in well....wheat beers.

is there any reason we should be using carapils instead of oats or flaked barley in an IPA to add mouthfeel, body, and head retention without adding significant flavor other than maybe clarity? I keep thinking about using flaked oats or barley in all the styles I use carapils in just to see how it affects it.
Well, carapils doesn't caus a haze, so it's used in lighter colored and clear beers. Wheat can cause a protein haze, making beer cloudy, so it's used in small quantitities if used in a beer like an APA that is normally clear. Same with flaked barley- it gives great head retention but it can cause a haze so it's used mostly in darker beers where you can't see any haze. Oats actually can hurt head retention, but it gives great mouthfeel so it's usually used in beers than can benefit from a silky mouthfeel.

I guess what I'm trying to say (perhaps poorly!) is that while all of those ingredients are "good", they do have different uses and characters so they are not interchangable!
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Old 01-15-2011, 11:41 PM   #4
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I haven't used all of these, but isn't there also going to be some flavor associated with each? Wheat has more ferulic acid which is the precursor to the clovey 4-vinyl guaiacol; carapils is a "cara" malt (a very light one, but still a "cara" malt). Used in small quantities maybe these flavor differences are negligible, but they might have some impact on choosing which one to use.

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Old 01-16-2011, 07:51 AM   #5
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I'm wondering if maybe a blend of carapils along with one of the others would be enough to pump up the body, etc while not being enough to add the haze.

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Old 01-16-2011, 12:50 PM   #6
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One of the coolest experiments involving Flaked Barely, Oats, Wheat and Rye (no carapils)


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Originally Posted by kinkothecarp View Post
This experiment was to test the performance of flaked rye, flaked barley, flaked wheat, and rolled oats in five batches of Stout. The recipe was as follows:

Original Gravity: 1.055
Final Gravity: 1.018
IBU: 36
Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 14days @ 65F

4# Extract
2# Pale malt
0.5# roasted Barley (350l)
0.75# chocolate (330l)
0.75# victory
0.5# crystal 40
0.5# crsytal 120
1# ________________
1oz Zeus @ 60 minutes

Mashed the 2# Pale at 156F for 60 min, took the pale out, then steeped the specialty grains for 30. Removed, brought to a boil, and added the extract and hops.


The 1#___________ has five combinations in each 5 gallon batch:
1# Rolled Oats
1# Flaked Barley
1# Flaked Wheat
1# Flaked Rye
.25# Rolled Oats, .25# Flaked Barley, .25# Flaked Wheat, and .25# Flaked Rye


I'll let you know what happens!


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Originally Posted by kinkothecarp View Post
The Results:

Experiment
The beer was poured into J.K. Adams beer flight glasses and labeled only with a number by a dispassionate observer. A form that listed #1-#4 was given to each of the three brewers that asked for tasting notes and a guess for which ingredient went into each batch.

We omitted the mix.

Participant Background

Each of us has a fairly vast knowledge of beer (We've finished www.ratebeer.com's Top 50 Beer list together, GABF, greater than 500 samples each, etc.)

Person 1 and Person 3 formulate all the recipes we brew, Person 2 just gives us money, hangs out, and drinks with us while we brew. He helps us with the physical tasks, but doesn't know much about making recipes. However, he's the least picky of the three.

Person 1 has the least experience brewing, Person 3 has the most.

Person 2 is the most experience drinker - or at least he drinks the most.

I do admit, we make almost 80% of our beers with Rye, and don't use the other ingredients too often.

The following is the results from the score cards:

Person 1
#1 [Wheat]: Head lasted the longest of all those tested, distinct mellow taste, oily, but not as oily as #3.
Guess: Wheat
#2 [Rye]:This is the rye. Crisp, smooth, I know that taste. Rye.
Guess: Rye
#3 [Oats]:This is the best tasting of the three. Thick, oily, good mouthfeel, and the carbonation feels different than the others. It feels much thicker than the others, so this is what a stout should be.
Guess: Barley
#4 [Barley]: Head retention almost as good as #1, however, there is no distinct taste. Oily, but not as much as #1 or #3.
Guess: Oats

Person 2
#1 [Wheat]:Certainly a different taste, thick, tastes pretty good, head lasts a lot longer than the other, has a distinct taste, I can't tell if it's oats or wheat. Whatever it is, it is good.
Guess: Oats
#2 [Rye]:This one is the best. I love the crisp taste. It's perfect. Matches the burnt flavors very well. I bet it is the Rye. It's the best.
Guess: Rye
#3 [Oats]: This one is thick, second longest lasting head, it is pretty good, thick, it tastes like something, but I do not know it. Barely maybe. It is good.
Guess: Barley
#4 [Barley]: I am not sure, it tastes like #3. It is good.
Guess: Oats

Person 3
#1 [Wheat]: This one must be the wheat. It's thicker than normal, has a very distinct aroma, and tastes a little bit like wheat. The flavor is difficult to discern, but it's almost defiantly wheat. I'm 90% sure.
Guess: Wheat
#2 [Rye]: It's Rye. Obvious. I can't overstate the ability to tell what this one is.
Guess: Rye
#3 [Oats]:This one I'm not so sure about - it tastes like it could be either roasted barley or oats. It's thick creamy, head lasts a long time, I liked this one very much. It's easy to tell this from the others, this being superior. It's got a little bit of the Barney-Flats or Breckenridge thing going for it, so I'm guessing oats.
Guess: Oats
#4 [Barley]: This is a close second to #3. It's got a thick creamy head, albeit not as significant as the wheat, it's got a good smell - but not different from #3. It's well-balanced, but it's lacking the mouthfeel of #3.



Conclusion
I don't think that there is too big of a difference here. The rye is discernible, the wheat maybe, and the other two are VERY difficult. I think in a large pool of samples, the odds of us getting them right would be reduced drastically. Honestly, the last two were guesswork on the part of all three of us.
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