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Old 12-14-2012, 02:45 AM   #551
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Sounds the same as what I see: it works furiously for a day or two and by day 3 or 4 the krausen has fallen in and I am getting a bubble in my bucket about every 15 seconds. I tend to leave it on the yeast for two weeks before kegging it and 007 keeps working though it slows considerably after the first week. For the first 1-3 days it looks like a washing machine with a huge amount of churn before settling down. I always ferment with 007 in my basement at 68-72 and it works fast and produces a good amount of alcohol. I always use a liter starter and generally use washed yeast. Most of the time I start getting a bubble per minute within 4 hours, especially if I hit it with a minute or so of pure oxygen. I always feed the yeast with energizer and some 1.040 starter wort. Typically I start this on Friday night for a Sunday evening pitch.

The Stone Epic ales were AWESOME last night. Had the 3-3-3, 5-5-5, 7-7-7, 9-9-9 and 12-12-12 and a double bastard. I hurt like hell this morning, but it was worth it!! LOVED the 9-9-9, 12-12-12 and double B!! Stone has recipes for all Epics online and I am definitely going to brew some of those! You guys were spot on about the double B...that was like liquid sex!

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Old 12-14-2012, 05:40 AM   #552
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stonebrewer - your process is very similar to mine with the exception of feeding the yeast with an energizer. I have never used a nutrient yet and have had great success. I too hit the cooled wort with about a minute of O2 through a 200 micron stone. Not full blast, but a nice bubble.

The detail you provided regarding WLP007 is spot-on to what occured with my recent batch of AB. Funny how these things work ...

I can get the verticals here in Las Vegas this time of year. I'll have to pick some up. Stone is pretty cheap, like $6.99 for the Double Bastard, Barley Wine, Verticals, etc. My local place also discounts %10 on six bottles too.

The Double Bastard is the best in my opinion. I would really like to perfect it on the homebrew scale. Like Double Dead Guy, which I do have a recipe for (courtesy of John @ Rogue), the Double Bastard is my favorite goto beer.

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Old 12-14-2012, 01:31 PM   #553
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ultravista - Always nice to have confirmation that you are doing the same as other brewers and getting the same results! I bought a huge bag of energizer after reading a couple of books that detailed the nutrients needed for yeast to properly grow and metabolize. Not sure if it helps or not, but I get pretty good results so I stick to it. I wash a lot of yeast and am thinking once I runout of energizer to just put a cup of old yeast into the boil instead of buying more energizer. That will at least give them the Biotin they need and the vitamin B complex. I don't think they contain DAP or magnesium sulphate, but honestly have not done the research yet to find out one way or the other. I think they like/need zinc as well, but that is going off memory and mine it not trustworthy...grin!

I think I am going to brew up 10G of AB this weekend and am trying to decide today which yeast to use. I am leaning towards WLP002 right now but may change my mind before I kick off the starter in an hour or so...

If you find a DB recipe you like PLEASE let me know and I will do likewise! I got a bottle the other night ($17! yikes!) and have to find a way to recreate or get close!

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Old 12-28-2012, 05:03 PM   #554
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Anyone ever try pulling off the first gallon of wort and boiling it hard and reducing to a half gallon and then adding it back into the main boil like you would for a Scottish ale? I wonder if this would help with the malt flavor that it seems isn't quite nailed down. I am planning on brewing this soon, and may give it a try.

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Old 12-28-2012, 05:30 PM   #555
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Yup, I do that with most beers I brew. As a "mash in a bag" brewer, I drain the bag and can usually collect 6 to 7 quarts post sparge. I boil down these runnings to a quart or less on the stove.

Very similar to your process.

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Old 12-28-2012, 07:03 PM   #556
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I did a decoction mashout on my last stab at AB. 14% special B, all hop additions increased by 30% nailed it in my opinion (and the regular AB drinkers I shared it with)

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Old 12-29-2012, 03:44 PM   #557
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After 20 days, I kegged the AB. It tasted great, hoppy and the Chinook flavor came through. All with only 3 oz.

One hydrometer read 1.014 and another 1.020. I'll have to calibrate to determine which one is accurate. The high one is new from Brew Masters Warehouse. It will suck if it's that far off.

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Old 02-25-2013, 12:48 AM   #558
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I can't believe I rad the whole thread!!

Seems to be several personal preferences and opinions of outcomes of these clone recipes. Seems like all are close.

Personally, I don't know if I have the nose to sniff out all the details. I picked up the last bottle at the local store today of AB after reading this and tried to discern if I could tell what specialty malt and hops were used. Nope, it's too arrogant for me! I'm lucky I even enjoyed the beer! The onslaught of hops and bitterness dominated any chance I had at discerning malt subtleties. Maybe it's like spicy food, and I need to desensitize the bitter tastebuds or something.

I think I'm gonna try to brew this recipe anyway, as I enjoyed the AB I bought today after a long working weekend.

My thoughts after reading the thread are as follows:

If I were trying to create a mystique about a special recipe, I would count on homebrewerrs trying to teases it from my employees and I agree that there is probably a certain amount of misdirection going on.

I think it might be not a recipe ingredient thing, but a process thing that is keeping folks from perfecting the absolute clone. Why does Guinness taste different in Ireland than in America when the stuff we get is brewed in Ireland?? Could be same thing here. Lord knows my palate will not be able to tease out the finer detail.

Has anyone tried a hop back or hop rocket? I made a 10 G batch of pale ale June 2011, just before I went on a brewing hiatus. I had a carboy sitting in the house for a good 10 months before I kegged it. The hop aroma was still incredible compared to non hop backed brews. Maybe this would help up the hop aroma and flavor for those missing the mark?
Also, bittering the early additions I think the more extraction of alpha acid bittering, it becomes exponential to get the uber bitter beer. Maybe I will do 2 oz x 90 min, and double the addition weight for each successive addition. I doubt that you can really taste the difference between an 85+ IBU beer and a100+ IBU beer that has an OG over 1.060. Maybe if you did a straight pilsner malt and no specialty malt...l

Does anyone think that they might be doing any manipulation such as blending beer, toasting malt, or perhaps lying about the simplicity of their grist? Water profiles I think only lend so much. It could be simply a fermentation temp or yeast or second fermentation thing going on?

Who knows, but ultimately, the 90:10 2 row to either special b or c150 seems to be good enough for a home brewer to enjoy a great beer that's close enough for most.

I'm going to try it soon, but have too many March madness plans to consider any extra brews. Got 10 brew days planned already!

TD

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Old 02-25-2013, 02:23 AM   #559
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Mr. Dick

I have made several batches with 90% 2-row and 10% Special B. While Special B may be in the ballpark, I don't think the ratio is right. Bottles of AB have a distinct flavor to them, similar to Jubelale (at least to me).

Jubelale lists crystal and an extra special malt.

So I'm wondering .. increase the Special B or possibly go with 120 or 150.

Either way, I think 10% is a little shy.

Have you had Jubelale? Do you know the taste I am referring to?

To me, that unique flavor is more pronounced in the Double Bastard.

Check this thread too: http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/for...p?f=25&t=16613

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Old 02-25-2013, 02:26 AM   #560
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Quote:
Does anyone think that they might be doing any manipulation such as blending beer, toasting malt, or perhaps lying about the simplicity of their grist? Water profiles I think only lend so much. It could be simply a fermentation temp or yeast or second fermentation thing going on?
Yeah, I think it is the yeast. I am pretty sure this is a simple beer, ingredient wise. The one thing we cannot get is their house yeast. WLP007 and WLP002 both come close, but are different and I think that is the subtle delta that eludes us. That said, I have made this beer six ways to Sunday and I can say each has been different and each has been freakin' awesome to drink. Changed just fermentation temps last time and got a "bubble gum" ester note that I have tasted in some of Stone's brews. I am actually having a glass of that now and am really enjoying it. This was a 10G batch and it is over half gone; brewed right before Christmas. Took a couple of gallons to a party and it was a hit. Took a gallon to a Friday, after work get together and it was a huge hit. I think I will brew it again in a week or two. This time I may change from Special B to C150 as Austin HB has it on sale for a $1 per pound...or I may just make it the same way I did this one. Please post after you brew it...
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