Kaiser

Recipes 

Hi

This is the continuation of a discussion between the Baron and me:

The Baron pointed me to this artickle:
http://byo.com/feature/442.html

in which the following recipe is mentioned for a Doppelbock:

10 lbs. pale pilsner malt
2.5 lbs. Munich malt
1 lb. cara-pils or dextrin-type malt
1.5 lbs. carastan or pale caramel malt, 20¡ Lovibond
2 lbs. crystal malt, 60¡ Lovibond
1 lb. pale chocolate malt, 170¡ Lovibond
0.75 oz. Perle hops (7.3% alpha acid) for 90 min.
1 oz. Hallertauer hops (3.7% alpha acid): 0.5 oz. for 30 min., 0.5 oz. at end of boil
Wyeast 2206 (Bavarian lager)
2/3 cup corn sugar for priming

Step by Step:

Mash grains in 5.5 gal. water in a single infusion at 150¡ F for 60 min. Sparge with 170¡ F water to collect 5.5 gal.
Total boil is 90 min. At start of boil, add Perle hops. Boil 60 min. and add 0.5 oz. Hallertauer hops. Boil 30 min. more and add 0.5 oz. Hallertauer hops. Chill to 45¡ F and pitch yeast in a starter.
Ferment at 45¡ F for three days. Raise to 50¡ F for three days. Raise to 55¡. Rack into secondary when gravity reaches less than 1.020. Cool to 40¡ F and ferment to 1.008 (about three more days). Age at 40¡ F until clear (seven to 14 days). Bottle and prime. Condition in the bottle as long as desired (30 to 60 days)

There are a few things which I think make this Doppelbock not very authentic:

saccrification rest at 150¡ F for 60 min; and ferment to 1.008
This seems way to low for the FG of a Doppelbock. Think about the style as liquid bread. The FG should be be at least close to 1.020.

1 lb. pale chocolate malt, 170¡ Lovibond
I'm not sure about pale chocolate. But you don't want to have the roasted bitterness from 1lb of chocolate malt.

0.75 oz. Perle hops (7.3% alpha acid) for 90 min.
1 oz. Hallertauer hops (3.7% alpha acid): 0.5 oz. for 30 min., 0.5 oz. at end of boil
This will give you to much bitterness and the hop-flavor/aroma is not desired in this style.


Kai

__________________
BrauKaiser.com - recipes - Blog - German Beer Reviews - Water and mash chemistry spreadsheet

Baron von BeeGee

Recipes 

We should invite Colby as a guest thread participant. Did you notice that their Aventinus clone includes an option for a German lager yeast? Everything else I've read indicates a top cropping ale yeast (hefeweizen type).

I know they print a lot of recipes each month, and get great brewer feedback on some of them, but I'm sure not all of them.

Kaiser

Recipes 

possible. But I'm not sure if my expeirience is a match here. Most of my knowledge on this style comes from american literature and from tasting the most common German Doppelbock examples. To me, these examples define faily narrow parameters.

Only in America.
German brewers are not allowed to put wheat malt into a bottom fermenting beer. And you actually want the clove/banana aromas in the Aventius. It won't be much of a clone (bad mutation actually) if you use a lager yeast.

I'll have to read both artickles tonight.

Maybe I'll write them an e-mail, expressing my concerns with the authenticity of the styles. This is actually quite important to me since BYO is a widely read and followed magazine. If they deviate from the style to much, many new brewers will get the wrong impression on these styles.

I guess I'm seen as the style-nazi now. I guess that would make for a rather controversial user name and avatar.

Kai

__________________
BrauKaiser.com - recipes - Blog - German Beer Reviews - Water and mash chemistry spreadsheet

Baron von BeeGee

Recipes 

Not so much for a Hannity and Colmes type discussion, but just to see where they got their research from and how they derived their recipes. I love BYO and read it cover to cover as soon as it comes, but at the end of the day it is just one source of information out of many. I always find a recipe I like, but I really go for the equipment fabrication articles.

Mikey

Recipes 

Huh? Where did you get that one?

Baron von BeeGee

Recipes 

I'm pretty sure he got that from the Reinheitsgebot.

Mikey

Recipes 

The Reinheitsgebot was written long before anyone knew that yeast existed.

Kaiser

Recipes 

yep, only barley malt, water, hops and yeast are allowed for bottom fermenting beers. Some Hefe Weizens however, are bottled with a lager yeast. This kind of yeast is more resistant to autolysis.

Kai

__________________
BrauKaiser.com - recipes - Blog - German Beer Reviews - Water and mash chemistry spreadsheet

Mikey

Recipes 

The Complete Reinheitsgebot Text Translated
"We hereby proclaim and decree, by Authority of our Province, that henceforth in the Duchy of Bavaria, in the country as well as in the cities and marketplaces, the following rules apply to the sale of beer:

From Michaelmas to Georgi, the price for one Mass [Bavarian Liter 1,069] or one Kopf [bowl-shaped container for fluids, not quite one Mass], is not to exceed one Pfennig Munich value, and

From Georgi to Michaelmas, the Mass shall not be sold for more than two Pfennig of the same value, the Kopf not more than three Heller [Heller usually one-half Pfennig].

If this not be adhered to, the punishment stated below shall be administered.

Should any person brew, or otherwise have, other beer than March beer, it is not to be sold any higher than one Pfennig per Mass.

Furthermore, we wish to emphasize that in future in all cities, markets and in the country, the only ingredients used for the brewing of beer must be Barley, Hops and Water. Whosoever knowingly disregards or transgresses upon this ordinance, shall be punished by the Court authorities' confiscating such barrels of beer, without fail.

Should, however, an innkeeper in the country, city or markets buy two or three pails of beer (containing 60 Mass) and sell it again to the common peasantry, he alone shall be permitted to charge one Heller more for the Mass of the Kopf, than mentioned above. Furthermore, should there arise a scarcity and subsequent price increase of the barley (also considering that the times of harvest differ, due to location), WE, the Bavarian Duchy, shall have the right to order curtailments for the good of all concerned."

A later amendment includes 'yeast' as an allowable ingredient, but makes no mention of top or bottom fermenting.

I think the purity law is one of the most misquoted documents I've ever seen - lots of people think it also governs what type of metals must be used to brew in or decrees that a decoction mash must be used, etc..

Kaiser

Recipes 

A lot of amendments have been made to this law. Especially in the 1990s to align with some of the European Union requirements. But that mostly affects top fermenting beers.

There have been a frew threads about this.

Kai

__________________
BrauKaiser.com - recipes - Blog - German Beer Reviews - Water and mash chemistry spreadsheet