I have read with a lot of interest posts re cider making and listened to podcasts re cider of late. Trouble is, cider made with eating and cooking apples is a totally different thing from that which is made using traditional cider apples. Most roadside ciders and many that I have found bottled are not even close to original ciders. Having spent weeks in the western England cider country, talked with the Somerset cider makers, travelled to Long Ashton and the Frech cidre makers in Normandy I found that the appples and the processes are far different from what most would think. If you ever bit into a real cider apple, you wouldn't do it twice. The tannin is extremely high and the sugar low. The tannin is essential. Too, a good cider that is aged in a huge oak butt has the benefit of aging all winter and spring. Some used to use a leg of lamb to get it started. Great cider takes great ingredients and care. Fermenting American eating apples will yield fermented apple juice, but that is light years away from either American, English, French or German ciders. Ah yes, and then there is scrumpy and verjuice.