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Old 02-29-2008, 02:00 AM   #1
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Default Bullion based IPA, critique please (Fall Thunder? but it's Winter!)

OK, so I used to brew a hell of a lot of IPA's. So many that I actually got bored of brewing them and went elsewhere in brewing land. (Plus most of my IPA recipes were on a HD that died).

So now that there is a hop shortage, I of course, have decide to brew an IPA.

Using Bullion and Tett. (I have 5lbs of each). Haven't used Bullion before but it is similar in the flavor/aroma end to columbus is it not? Cept for the "black current" flavor I read in the descriptions.

Of course [arguably] if you boil that crap out of any hop (60+ min) you will get no imparted flavor, but I do have a bullion addition at t-15.

Wondering what you fellow hop lovers think if the following?

I set the efficiency in beersmith to 75% but I usually get around 85 or 90%. rebuilt the grinder the other day and haven't brewed in months, so I erred on the side of caution with the 75% setting.

Code:
Recipe: Fall thunder - Bullion Style (Yes I know the season is off. lol)
Brewer: Denny
Style: Extra Special/Strong Bitter (English Pale Ale)
TYPE: All Grain

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 40.00 L      
Boil Size: 47.44 L
Estimated OG: 1.058 SG
Estimated Color: 12.6 SRM
Estimated IBU: 53.4 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.0 % (I usually hit around 85 - 90% so my OG will likely be higher.)
Boil Time: 60 Minutes or more

Ingredients:
------------
Amount        Item                                      Type        % or IBU      
7.25 kg       Pale ESB - Gambrinus (3.0 SRM)            Grain       72.5 %        
1.50 kg       Vienna - Gambrinus (5.5 SRM)              Grain       15.0 %        
0.50 kg       Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM)     Grain       5.0 %         
0.50 kg       Honey Malt (25.0 SRM)                     Grain       5.0 %         
0.25 kg       Special B Malt (180.0 SRM)                Grain       2.5 %         
100.00 gm     Bullion [8.00%]  (60 min)                 Hops        46.3 IBU      
15.00 gm      Bullion [8.00%]  (15 min)                 Hops        3.4 IBU       
30.00 gm      Tettnang [3.00%]  (15 min)                Hops        2.6 IBU       
30.00 gm      Tettnang [3.00%]  (5 min)                 Hops        1.0 IBU       
1 Pkgs        SafAle English Ale (DCL Yeast #S-04)      Yeast-Ale                 


Mash Schedule: Temperature Mash, 1 Step, Light Body
Total Grain Weight: 10.00 kg
----------------------------
Name                Description                          Step Temp     Step Time   
Saccharification    Add 26.10 L of water at 71.9 C       65.6 C        45 min      
Mash Out            Heat to 75.6 C over 10 min           75.6 C        10 min
File Type: bsm FallThunder-Bullion.bsm (13.8 KB, 23 views)
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Old 02-29-2008, 02:05 AM   #2
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Curious as well. I bought about 4 ounces of Bullion back in Sept. I'm looking to use. I've read they're good for stouts and darker English Ales. When I have seen them used in IPAs they've been for bittering for sure.


edit...good lord I can't spell...that the trouble with drinking HB, cooking dinner, and taking care of a sick SWMBO all at the same time.

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Old 02-29-2008, 02:12 AM   #3
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I've used columbus as a dry hop with willamette as a flavor hop with success before. Bullion is new to me though, but I got 5 lbs for 36 bucks CAD.

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Old 02-29-2008, 03:40 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denny's Evil Concoctions

Using Bullion and Tett. (I have 5lbs of each). Haven't used Bullion before but it is similar in the flavor/aroma end to columbus is it not? Cept for the "black current" flavor I read in the descriptions.
I've used Bullion and like it for bittering many UK style ales although I like it's relative Brewer's Gold better. Either one, however, is not well suited IMO as a late addition hop. It doesn't taste like Columbus. There is no piny/acid citrus flavor. The famous black current flavor is there in the background but don't expect it to jump out at you. My suggestion is to keep the Bullion in the 60 minute range and perhaps consider throwing some in as a FWH addition.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Denny's Evil Concoctions
Of course if you boil that crap out of any hop (60+ min) you will get no imparted flavor, but I do have a bullion addition at t-15.
I know this is homebrewing conventional wisdom but I disagree. There is a character imparted to the beer by even long boil hops IMO. Bullion and Brewer's Gold are close relatives and every hop publication will list them as substitutes for each other. A favorite brew of mine that I have made many dozens of time over the years uses Brewer's Gold as the primary bittering hop with additions limited to the 90-45 minute range. Brewer's Gold is sometimes hard to find and I have subbed Bullion on a number of occasions but the beer never tastes quite the same. YMMV.
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Old 02-29-2008, 03:49 AM   #5
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So what flavor & aroma, besides the black current, does this hop impart in late additions?

BTW I'll agree to disagree with the well boiled hops changing the flavor thing. I've seen the research, read the brewing science books, chatted with brewmasters and have used all kinds of hops for bittering with no flavor differences. But that's just me.
(of course flavor can be added if used as a mash hop or FWH)

It's what one perceives whether mentally or physically that really matters.

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Old 02-29-2008, 09:29 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denny's Evil Concoctions
So what flavor & aroma, besides the black current, does this hop impart in late additions?

BTW I'll agree to disagree with the well boiled hops changing the flavor thing. I've seen the research, read the brewing science books, chatted with brewmasters and have used all kinds of hops for bittering with no flavor differences. But that's just me.
(of course flavor can be added if used as a mash hop or FWH)

It's what one perceives whether mentally or physically that really matters.
Other than a somewhat course flavored generic Brit hop (maybe woodsy/earthy) I don't know what would standout with the Bullion hops. Again I think they are a great bittering hop for UK ales but they don't offer much in the way of aroma and flavor compared to, say, EKG, Fuggles, WGV, et al. That's why I suggested adding them as a FWH rather than a late addition. If you like course flavored American hops like Chinook or Cluster as a flavor/aroma addition then give the Bullion a try. My preference is just for hops with known quality flavor & aroma for those additions.

As for the bittering hops flavor thing I'm sure it wouldn't apply to all hops but many varieties are going to influence the overall profile of the beer even from the bittering addition. For example, make that recipe twice to the same IBU rate using the Bullion to bitter one and the Columbus to bitter the other. They will not taste the same.
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Old 02-29-2008, 09:52 PM   #7
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Well as long as the woodsiness doesn't over power the tett, I'm fine with that. If it does I'll dry hop some tett.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigEd
As for the bittering hops flavor thing I'm sure it wouldn't apply to all hops but many varieties are going to influence the overall profile of the beer even from the bittering addition. For example, make that recipe twice to the same IBU rate using the Bullion to bitter one and the Columbus to bitter the other. They will not taste the same.
I have done exactly the above but with other hops. I've used Columbus to bitter a Czech pilsner then used Norther Brewer to do the same in another batch. No difference. Same with other recipe's. The key is to boil long enough. 60 min is really a minimum.

The beta and other acids boil out of the beer after 60+ minutes. The Alpha Isomerizes. So I don't see what's left to actually impart flavor.
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Old 03-01-2008, 03:38 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denny's Evil Concoctions



I have done exactly the above but with other hops. I've used Columbus to bitter a Czech pilsner then used Norther Brewer to do the same in another batch. No difference. Same with other recipe's. The key is to boil long enough. 60 min is really a minimum.

The beta and other acids boil out of the beer after 60+ minutes. The Alpha Isomerizes. So I don't see what's left to actually impart flavor.
Like you indicated above this is a subjective choice. If Columbus works on a Czech pils then go for it.
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Old 03-01-2008, 04:48 AM   #9
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That black current flavor. So is it barely noticible over the other bullion flavors?

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