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-   -   Bread Flavor in Paulaner Helles and Bitburger? (http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/bread-flavor-paulaner-helles-bitburger-373947/)

jrhammonds 12-13-2012 03:38 PM

Bread Flavor in Paulaner Helles and Bitburger?
I'll make this as simple as I can.

I've been brewing all-grain for 10 years, lagers for 2. I've recently become obsessed with trying to replicate the explicit BREAD flavor that you find in a Paulaner Helles or a Bitburger. I'm not talking about the generic bread/malt flavor that many people talk about in Munich/Vienna/Maris etc... I'm referring to that "I just took a bite of the crust of a french baguette" bread flavor. (Paulaner Helles and Bitburger have it; Spaten, Czech Pils, and other continental Pils's do not--just to clarify).

Currently, I'm on my 5th batch of German Helles. I only change a small variable each batch so I can isolate this issue.
As it stands my recipe has been a tweaked verson of this:

91% German Pils (Best Malz)
6% Munich 9L (Weyerman) (but I've also done Light Munich 6L)
1% Melanoidin (Wyerman)

So far.. fantastic beers! But no french crusty baguette flavor. I know some use Durst Malt, some Weyerman. I've done triple decoctions before with my Czech Pils recipe, but not this guy; but I can't help but wonder WHAT MALT has this distinct flavor. Is it a brand? Another malt? Decoction?

If you know exactly what I'm talking about, help a brother out! Thanks!

ghpeel 12-14-2012 12:40 AM

Subscribed! I am also curious about getting that flavor just right.

jrhammonds 12-15-2012 12:14 AM

No one?

Patirck 12-15-2012 12:45 AM

I think it may require more melanoidin or doing a decoction to get more melanoidins. Bitburger and the like have a super simple grist so it is probably more dependent on process.

jrhammonds 12-21-2012 10:51 PM

Thanks for the suggestion! I know how light and simple Bitburger is, but yet sooo bready.

StMarcos 12-22-2012 09:19 AM

I want to know too, and know that character that you're referring to. I really like it.

Xpertskir 12-22-2012 02:53 PM

1% melanoidin is not very much. I've used anywhere between 3-5ish. Admittedly they weren't for that style of beer though.

drchris83 12-22-2012 05:30 PM

Per definition, a Helles is made from either Munich malt ("Münchner Helles") or Vienna malt ("Wiener Helles"). Could it be that you're using too much pilsner in your grist?

Beezer94 12-22-2012 09:07 PM

The BJCP style guide for '1D. Munich Helles' says all Pilsner malt. It's the '5A. Maibock/Helles Bock' that calls for Munich & Vienna malts.

1D. Munich Helles

Aroma: Pleasantly grainy-sweet, clean Pils malt aroma dominates.
 Low to moderately-low spicy noble hop aroma, and a low background note
 of DMS (from Pils malt). No esters or diacetyl.

Appearance: Medium yellow to pale gold, clear, with a creamy white head.

Flavor: Slightly sweet, malty profile. Grain and Pils malt flavors dominate,
 with a low to medium-low hop bitterness that supports the malty palate.
 Low to moderately-low spicy noble hop flavor. Finish and aftertaste remain
 malty. Clean, no fruity esters, no diacetyl.

Mouthfeel: Medium body, medium carbonation, smooth maltiness with no
 trace of astringency.

Overall Impression: Malty but fully attenuated Pils malt showcase.

Comments: Unlike Pilsner but like its cousin, Munich Dunkel, Helles is a
 malt-accentuated beer that is not overly sweet, but rather focuses on malt
 flavor with underlying hop bitterness in a supporting role.

History: Created in Munich in 1895 at the Spaten brewery by Gabriel
 Sedlmayr to compete with Pilsner-style beers.

Ingredients: Moderate carbonate water, Pilsner malt, German noble
 hop varieties.

Vital Statistics:        OG: 1.045 – 1.051
IBUs: 16 – 22        FG: 1.008 – 1.012
SRM: 3 – 5        ABV: 4.7 – 5.4%

Commercial Examples: Weihenstephaner Original, Hacker-Pschorr Münchner
 Gold, Bürgerbräu Wolznacher Hell Naturtrüb, Mahr's Hell, Paulaner Premium
, Spaten Premium Lager, Stoudt's Gold Lager

I would believe a decoction mash, low hopping rates, the higher carbonate water would help differentiate it from a Czech or German Pils. If that's not enough perhaps the use of a malt-accentuating lager yeast would help.

raysmithtx 12-22-2012 09:57 PM

Bjcp shows a bitburger as a German Pilsner 2A

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