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Old 07-23-2012, 01:35 PM   #31
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Here is my version of this recipe. It turned out to be an amazing stout. I soaked 2 - 8" american oak spirals in Knob Creek for several weeks and then oaked the finished beer for 7weeks.

It's only been aging in bottles for 4 months, so I'm waiting another 2 months before I open another. I will report back with detailed tasting notes.

Here is the link to the recipe. http://hopville.com/recipe/1102650/a...-01-20-version


60% 16 0 American Two-row Pale
11% 3 0 Munich Malt
11% 3 0 Briess DME Golden Light
7% 2 0 Chocolate Malt
4% 1 0 Caraaroma
4% 1 0 Caramel/Crystal Malt 80
2% 0 8 Roasted Barley
1% 0 4 Carafa Special III
Batch size: 6.0 gallons

Original Gravity - 1.109 measured - (1.132 estimated)
Final Gravity - 1.031 measured - (1.033 estimated)
Color - 65° SRM estimated
Mash Efficiency - 75%
Mash Temp - 150 deg. F

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USE TIME OZ VARIETY FORM AA
boil 60 mins 3.0 Willamette leaf 6.0
boil 20 mins 1.0 Mt. Hood pellet 6.0
boil 20 mins 0.5 Willamette leaf 6.0
Boil: 6.5 avg gallons for 60 minutes

Fermented with Wyeast American Ale (1056)

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Old 09-25-2012, 01:18 AM   #32
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OK. I designed this beer based on the following requirements/assumptions:

Assumption #1-- The Ingredients are listed on the GI website from greatest to least, but if two ingredients are used equally, they are placed in alphabetical order. This means I must have the following ingredients in the following order: Pale Malt, Munich, Chocolate, Caramel 60(n1), Roasted Barley, Debittered Black Malt. Now to look for ingredients that might be used equally.. Assuming the common convention is followed where things are listed in alphabetical order when used equally, Pale comes after Munich (alphabetically), so there's more Pale Malt than Munich (Otherwise they'd be listed in reverse order). And Munich comes after Chocolate (So there is probably more munich than chocolate, not equal amounts). And alphabetically, Chocolate comes after Caramel, so since Chocolate is listed first, there should definitely be more Chocolate malt than Caramel malt in this beer. It should be an actual quantitative difference, otherwise the order makes no sense (Caramel would be listed first). But then Caramel comes before Roasted Barley (alphabetically and on the ingredient list) so conceivably, those MIGHT be used at the same quantity. That's just a 50/50 coin flip though. Roasted barley could be quite a bit less. However, since this beer has a ton of sweetness, I have no fear whatsoever about adding too much bitter malt, so equal parts of Roasted Barley and Caramel it is! And then Roasted Barley comes after Debittered so there is a likely quantitative difference there as well. So basically, Roasted barley and caramel are the only two ingredients which might be used in equal parts in this recipe, and everything else follows a definite hierarchy of quantity (assuming the GI brewers know how to put things in alphabetical order and aren't trying to screw with us). So from here, and knowing the OG/FG, and the SRM's, it's just a logic problem to figure out possible percentages. So now off to Beersmith I go!!!!

Requirement #1-- I will not be able to fit 6 gallons of this beer into my 5 gallon MLT, therefore, I will be doing this partigyle-style and creating two 3 gallon batches, mashing twice. Each time, I will take the first runnings for the BCS, and use the second runnings for a session beer of some sort. Maybe even a "Baby Bourbon Stout".

Requirement #2-- Even with the double-batch method, I will still likely need some Extract to increase the SG. I will also have to be watering down my hydrometer sample in order to get a reading.

Assumption #2-- The munich malt must be in there for a reason. It's the second listed ingredient, after 2-row. With all this darkness and maltiness, what's a little munich malt going to do besides take away from diastatic power? In such a complex beer, why not just add a little extra 2 row and some crystal? What's the point? Well, I'm guessing they are using quite a bit of Munich Malt. Otherwise, why not just leave it out? I am hypothesizing that that is the challenge for the brewer... use as much (low diastatic munich) as you can while still getting good conversion.

Requirement #3-- When trying to figure out the recipe, let the grains guide you more than the SRM. This beer will be BLACK. Period. So assuming the Goose Island is brewing All-Grain, I will use the SRM information to help me zone in on the recipe formula. However, since I'm brewing Partial Mash for this (due to the huge grain bill), I'm going let the SRM calculation slide a bit as necessary to get closer to what I think the actual beer recipe should be.

To me, the grain bill seems kind of weird. First you have your base malt (high diastatic, that's normal). But then you have a malt that barely converts itself, followed by everything else that won't convert. Why? What's the purpose of that Munich malt? For a beer that has so much going on already, do you think they would they add "just a handful" of it? "Just for a subtle hint of character"? IMO That doesn't make sense in a beer like this. Especially given that it actually makes it harder to achieve the desired SRM because it adds almost nothing (relatively speaking) to the color. So I suspect that if you want to really nail down this recipe, here's what you need to do: While keeping the ingredients in their proper order, use the maximum amount of Munich and the minimum amount of 2 row. Now, I don't dare push the boundary too closely, after all this beer is going to age for at least 6 months or more! It'd be a shame to screw it up in the brewing process. So I will play it safe with an adequate amount of two row, but based on this theory, I will be using Munich LME.

Remember, this is a 3 gallon recipe. I will make it twice to fill the carboy. And I want to make as much as humanly possible, so I'll be affixing a blow off tube and crossing my fingers.

Ingredients Amount Item Type % or IBU
Batch Size: 3.00 gal
Boil Volume: 3.43 gal Boil Time: 60 min
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.0 %

Ingredients Amount Item Type % or IBU
2.50 lb Munich Liquid Extract (8.0 SRM) Extract 17.2 %
4.50 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 31.0 %
2.25 lb Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 15.5 %
2.00 lb Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 13.8 %
1.50 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 10.3 %
1.50 lb Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM) Grain 10.3 %
0.25 lb Black (Patent) Malt (500.0 SRM) Grain 1.7 %
4.00 oz Williamette [4.60%] (60 min) Hops 59.9 IBU

Beer Profile
Estimated Original Gravity: 1.129 SG (1.075-1.100 SG) Measured Original Gravity: 1.129 SG
Estimated Final Gravity: 1.032 SG (1.018-1.034 SG) Measured Final Gravity: 1.042 SG
Estimated Color: 101.7 SRM (30.0-45.0 SRM) Color [Color]
Bitterness: 59.9 IBU (50.0-95.0 IBU) Alpha Acid Units: 6.1 AAU
Estimated Alcohol by Volume: 12.9 % (8.0-13.0 %) Actual Alcohol by Volume: 11.5 %
Actual Calories: 635 cal/pint


And I'll probably substitute UK Styrian for the Williamette, since that seems to be what was used earlier in this beer's history.

n1. Currently, the website just states "Crystal" However in previous years they did specify C-60. And frankly, I've had over 10 years of this beer and sometime around 2005 to 2008 was the best, IMO.

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Old 10-02-2012, 07:56 AM   #33
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I'm in the middle of a VERY long brew night because I foolishly decided to do this recipe as close to AG as possible (using only 5lbs of Munich LME). The reasoning was that since I only have a 5 gallon MLT, it makes sense to do a double brew day, identical grain bills, and just keep the first runnings of each batch for the BCS.

However, I now see the error of my ways. This is a ROYAL pain in the arse. Therefore, for anybody who wants to clone this beer in the future without ridiculous amounts of equipment or excessively long boils, I strongly recommend doing a "Partial Mash" using a full BIAB set up. That'd be the best way to go for anyone without a ridiculous amount of equipment.

To this end, I put together a Partial Mash recipe. Next time, I will do it this way instead. NOTE: I have not tried this PM/BIAB version yet, but it's my best shot while keeping the grain bill under 11 lbs for a 5 gallon batch.

10.00 lb Munich Liquid Extract (8.0 SRM) Extract 47.6 %
4.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 19.0 %
2.50 lb Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 11.9 %
2.00 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 9.5 %
2.00 lb Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM) Grain 9.5 %
0.50 lb Black (Patent) Malt (500.0 SRM) Grain 2.4 %
6.00 oz Williamette [5.50%] (60 min) Hops 67.3 IBU

Beer Profile Estimated Original Gravity: 1.124 SG (1.040-1.050 SG) Measured Original Gravity: 1.124 SG
Estimated Final Gravity: 1.031 SG (1.010-1.012 SG) Measured Final Gravity: 1.040 SG
Estimated Color: 88.8 SRM (10.0-20.0 SRM) Color [Color]
Bitterness: 67.3 IBU (14.0-20.0 IBU) Alpha Acid Units: 6.6 AAU
Estimated Alcohol by Volume: 12.3 % (4.1-5.1 %) Actual Alcohol by Volume: 11.1 %


Note: You are very likely to miss your target gravity here and wind up needing a few additional pounds of LME/DME to compensate. Munich LME or Light DME or whatever you have on hand should work fine.

Additional Note: Due to the large amount of LME, I am erring on the conservative side, letting the OG be a little bit low, figuring that the LME won't ferment as fully as AG wort. I'm making this up with a bit of extra Black Patent to increase the SRM and I figure that it won't hurt the flavor profile too much. However, you might want to increase the SRM with a little extra Roasted Barley instead (an extra half pound of roasted barley in lieu of the extra .25lb of Black Patent).

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Old 10-22-2012, 05:31 PM   #34
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Hey humps, how is primary doing? -cash0

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Old 10-22-2012, 05:50 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cashX3r0 View Post
Hey humps, how is primary doing? -cash0
I just combined the two batches and moved it to secondary yesterday after three weeks in primary. It was done fermenting and I wanted to harvest the yeast anyway.

The first batch was just over 3 gallons, the second was closer to 4. The second, with the extra .007 points of starting gravity actually tasted dramatically closer to the original. Combined, the batches came out a touch too thin, IMO... but pretty close. Something magical just seemed to happen as you got above 1.035 on this recipe. Those couple extra points on the FG just completely changed the beer; anything below 1.035 is just going to be too thin, and 1.040 would probably be exactly right. So adjust your OG up, depending on the yeast you use. If you're like I was, you're probably thinking, "What's .005 in a recipe that's finishing around 1.040? Besides, I don't mind a bit more alcohol." Well, if that's what you think, then just be advised it won't be a very good clone... it'll still be a really good beer, but it won't be a good clone. If you want higher alcohol, boost the OG a bit, because it's got to finish between 1.037 and maybe 1.043 or so to even be close to the original. It makes more of a difference than I expected, based on my experience with batches that finished at 1.033 and 1.036; The 1.033 was NOTICEABLY and indisputably too thin as a clone, no question about it. I would describe the 1.036 as "just a touch watery". Again, that's as a clone. It's still a damn fine beer and mighty close...

At this moment, I've just begun the oaking process.

Average combined OG was 1.128 (target was 1.129, I would recommend 1.131-1.35 next time, as I got slightly better attenuation with my yeast than they did. I pitched a 1L starter, off a stir-plate, at high-krausen for each ~3.5gal batch and aerated with pure O2).

Combined-batch FG was 1.035 (The SD Super Yeast did a slightly better job than expected. Using California Ale Yeast or US-05 probably would have left those couple extra points behind that I wanted, but I think upping the OG is a better solution than downgrading the yeast. Of course, if you don't pitch a healthy starter, don't have a stir plate, or can't use pure O2, the SD Super Yeast would probably get you right in the ballpark. On the other hand, if you do all that fancy stuff and don't want to up the OG, then CA Ale yeast or US-05 is probably the better choice).

12.3%ABV... it might drop another point or two in secondary though. Not likely, but who knows...

I used WLP090 SD Super Yeast and it really did clean up fast. Still a bit yeasty, but actually surprisingly drinkable already. Of course, the intense flavors tend to cover up the greenness of the beer. And I think I may have used a bit too much roasted barley, however it might mellow out over the next several months, so I'm holding off on saying that I definitely should have used less. Either way, I'm only talking about maybe a half pound too much, at the most. I actually like the extra bitterness anyway as this is a really sweet beer obviously.

I added 1oz of medium-toast oak cubes, soaked in whiskey. They were soaked for about 20 days before adding. I did not add the whiskey into secondary, but have reserved it in case I change my mind at kegging/bottling time. I expect it to hopefully go at least 3 months on the oak, but will sample it periodically to prevent over-oaking. I used Gentleman Jack whiskey as my local store was out of the 750mL Makers Mark at the time and I didn't want to buy anything smaller or larger. And I find GJ to be really smooth, so thought it would work well (I know it's actually a whiskey not a bourbon, but oh well).


Final thoughts: You will notice that all of the tweaks I'm posting are pretty minor. Wondering about having .5lbs too much Roasted Barley in a stout? Zeroing in on an FG that I feel was off by about 12%? Overall, I'd say that when it comes to cloning this beer, my procedures are a greater limiting factor than my recipe. That's why I'm obsessively posting notes on these threads... so I can go back and tweak the procedures to get closer next time. The recipe is really close and I think that with my posted tweaks and notes, a good brewer should be able to get close enough with my recipe to get confused about which is which... notwithstanding the outcome of my oaking procedure which remains to be tasted.

Also, I started my own thread. The reason for that and the goal is to have my series of steps/procedures/processes laid out in an easy to follow manner. I'm actually doing that for my own benefit more than anybody else's... so I can brew it better next time. Not that I haven't learned a lot from this thread and the others' posts in it, but I trust my own taste buds more than others (no offense to anyone!), so I wanted my procedure laid out cleanly for me... And I thought others might also like having that information there in a linear fashion as well. So I figured it'd be better done as a thread on HBT, than as a Word Document on my computer.
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Old 10-22-2012, 09:34 PM   #36
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subscribed. Going to do this sometime soon!

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Old 10-29-2012, 12:26 AM   #37
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I just had some Bourbon County Stout and now I want to buy a 5 gallon used whiskey barrel and try my hand at this. I know I could use chips, but I really want to age something in a barrel...

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Old 10-30-2012, 12:20 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonMagee View Post
I just had some Bourbon County Stout and now I want to buy a 5 gallon used whiskey barrel and try my hand at this. I know I could use chips, but I really want to age something in a barrel...
Well best of luck if you decide to go that route! There's numerous issues, but they could all be managed if you really really wanted to do it. Personally, I felt that the effort wasn't worth the expensive and investment of time for such a tiny batch.

Having looked into it, some of the concerns you'll have to contend with include:
1. There is more surface area per gallon in a small barrel, so a 5 gallon barrel will over-oak your beer sooner than a normal 50-100 gallon barrel.
2. For obvious reasons, commercial whiskey isn't made in 5 gallon barrels, so you either have to fill it yourself with 5 gallons of whiskey, drain out the whiskey, and then use it, or else find a local hobbyist distiller wiling to sell you one of his.
3. Sanitation of barrels can be tricky. While whiskey's high ABV will kill most of the nasties, you will need to get it fresh, or else figure out a way to sanitize it.
4. Barrels can leak. Make sure you understand how to stop a barrel that's leaking.
5. Be ready with top off beer (or wort) periodically. Some beer will evaporate through the wood and since O2 causes beer to have an off-taste (like wet cardboard), you will need a way to keep the barrel topped off.

Those are the issues I can think of, off the top of my head. If you decide to do it, read all you can, and then post up about it! It's an interesting approach!
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Old 11-02-2012, 01:07 PM   #39
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Humps,

If I wanted to give your recipe a shot using Extract I just need to replace the 4lbs of Pale 2-Row Malt with 3 lbs of Light Malt Extract correct?

10.00 lb Munich Liquid Extract
3.00 lb Light Liquid Malt Extract
2.50 lb Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 11.9 %
2.00 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 9.5 %
2.00 lb Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM) Grain 9.5 %
0.50 lb Black (Patent) Malt (500.0 SRM) Grain 2.4 %
6.00 oz Williamette [5.50%] (60 min) Hops 67.3 IBU

I know the Roasted Barley will be virtually worthless with an extract brew but I plan on doing a sparge to try and suck anything out of there that I can. Any tips would be appreciated. Thanks!

-Evan

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Old 11-02-2012, 08:55 PM   #40
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This is a big, expensive, time-consuming recipe. Why not invest $5 in a nylon bag and $7 in a thermometer and do your first Brew In A Bag? That really is the best way to do this recipe... And it will save you half the equipment cost in extract alone.

Either way though, I would be interested in sharing results when we are through.

I recommend 1.5lbs of Roasted Barley though. 2lbs was a touch much I think.

Besides that, your recipe should work fine. And I thought roasted Barley COULD be steeped. No?

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