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**jrb03** · 11-29-2012, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NFryan

Did you add spice directly to the boil? If so did you strain them out when transferring to the fermenting pale? Secondary?

Thanks for the info I will def be upping the coriander when I give it a try saturday. I will be brewing #6 as well

Sorry i keep forgetting to reply to you. I add the spice and orange to my hop bag, so it gets strained and removed. I believe this is how it's intended, someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

**Wayne1** · 11-29-2012, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrb03

Sorry i keep forgetting to reply to you. I add the spice and orange to my hop bag, so it gets strained and removed. I believe this is how it's intended, someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

Nilo and others may do it differently, but I have always added it directly to the kettle. No straining.

In all the systems I have brewed this recipe on, the kettles had a whirlpool integrated in them. Hops and any spices would normally end up in the trub pile in the bottom center of the kettle. It is no big deal if some went into the fermenter.

I would not use poplin or any natural fiber bag. If you feel you must use a bag, use one of the paint strainer bags from Lowes. A better alternative would be to look into the stainless steel hop filters from Stainless Brewing.

Quote:

Congratulations Wayne! Please let us know when the breweries are open, can't wait to try out the new "variations" on my favorite beer. Thanks again for your time and efforts in this thread, and look forward to supporting your efforts!

Thank you. One brewery should open in May the other is hoping for June. It all depends if the brewhouse manufacturer can get the gear built in time. They are currently quoting 5-6 months. These both will be decent sized with brewhouses by Specific Mechanical and the fermenters and servers by Premier Stainless. One is a 7 bbl brewhouse the other is 15 bbl.

Quote:

Wayne, I completely understand what you are saying and my statements about the thin body are purely based on my perception. I think this is one thing very hard to understand in my opinion, not like bitterness, sweetness or color.
A question regarding the oats, how does mashing oats increase body? My thoughts were that it will provide starch and some flavor. The starch will be converted into sugars by the enzymes from the 2row and wheat malt. Will it yeld longer chain sugars after convertion than sugars from the malts, resulting in higher FG? Or does it add something else that I'm not aware of?
I think I'll do some simple tests with water and dextrin powder with different concentrations to measure my hability to detect "body" changes :-)

As caioz1jp mentioned the gums produced by mashing oats add quite a bit to mouthfeel.

Here are some quotes from an article in BYO about oatmeal stout. The comments have the same relevance to a wit.

However, the oats impart th well-known smoothness because of their high content of proteins, lipids (includes fats and waxes), and gums. The gums increase the viscosity and body of the beer.

Oats have no enzymes useful to mashing. They must be mashed (or partially mashed) with a malted grain for the starches to be converted. Like unmalted barley, the starches inside are hard and not readily usable, encased within the hard cellular structures of the grain. Without further processing they cannot be broken down by the malt enzymes.

For the starches within to be converted to sugar, the oats must be gelatinized prior to use. Gelatinization is basically a cooking process in which the hard kernel coating is broken and the starch granules are ruptured and released.

There are a few different kinds of oats available to the homebrewer. With flaked oats, also called rolled oats, the gelatinization is done by the manufacturer. This is done by softening the oats with steam and then passing them through heated pressure rollers into flakes. The grain husks are removed when the oats are rolled, and in this process the flake thickness can be controlled. The heat and pressure gelatinize the starches, and these grains can be added to the mash directly. The brewer does not need to cook these prior to mashing.

Rolled oats are available in the supermarket. It is best to buy the "quick cook" or "one minute" oats. These are identical to the traditional breakfast oats (which require longer cooking time), but the "quick oats" are cut into finer pieces. The resulting increased surface area allows the starches to dissolve more readily into the water. Special flaked oats, similar to the supermarket "quick cook" oats, are available in homebrew supply stores.

Steel-cut oats are the whole oat kernels, cut up but not gelatinized or processed in any othe way. These are cheaper than rolled oats. For the starches in these to be usable, these oats must be cooked before use. This can be done by placing the oats in boiling water, two gallons of water per pound of grain. This mixture is boiled between 45 minutes and two hours, and must be stirred every five minutes. The gelatinization is complete when the liquid consistency becomes uniform. Because of the extra work and mess involved in the cooking process, you're probably better off with pregelatinized, flaked oats.
The Gum Content of Oats

The thick consistency of an everyday bowl of cooked, breakfast oatmeal results from the high gum content of oats. These gums consist of beta-glucans, which are essentially long chains of many glucose units linked together. The difference between these beta-glucans and starches (which are also chains of glucose molecules) is in the structure of the bonds between the individual units. In well-modified malted grains, beta-glucan levels are low because these bonds are broken down during the germination phase.

**nilo** · 11-29-2012, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by el_caro

Thanks Nilo. Great work.
I would like to try your number 6 version. Do I just multiply your spreadsheet quantities by 0.6 to get the 3 gallon (into the fermenter) volume I am seeking?

Here's the #6 scaled to 3gals

**jrb03** · 11-30-2012, 02:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wayne1

Nilo and others may do it differently, but I have always added it directly to the kettle. No straining.

In all the systems I have brewed this recipe on, the kettles had a whirlpool integrated in them. Hops and any spices would normally end up in the trub pile in the bottom center of the kettle. It is no big deal if some went into the fermenter.

I would not use poplin or any natural fiber bag. If you feel you must use a bag, use one of the paint strainer bags from Lowes. A better alternative would be to look into the stainless steel hop filters from Stainless Brewing.

Thanks for the clarification. I don't whirlpool with my setup, so I have always used a nylon hop bag for hops and additions such as this.

caioz1jp · 11-30-2012, 02:48 PM

Nilo,

I just kegged and bottled my first attempt at your #6. I boiled the oats in a mulsin bag with my hops, corriander, and orange. Deffinatly not using irish mosh next time. This stuff was crystal clear lol. I am super excited to taste this weekend.

Wayne1,
Congrats on the new jobs. I am going to use your recipe suggestions next so i have a good idea of where i want to meet the two recipes.

**nilo** · 11-30-2012, 08:49 PM

OK, I have added a poll in my blog to track everybody's feedback on brewing the recipes proposed on this thread.
Link to blog is in my signature, go to menu "polls" and vote, per cathegory (Color,Body,IBU,Orange,Coriander), on the recipes that you tried or tasted which closely match the comercial beer. You can make multiple selections on each cathegory.
The poll is setup to accept one vote per day per IP address.
The pie graphs/charts should be updated instanteneously but the final score table at the very bottom will need to be loaded by me, which I plan to do once a week if new votes are placed.
Regarding new recipes that anyone has tried that significantly differ from what we have there already, please send it to me and I'll add to the poll.

Can someone send me/post the Wayne's original recipe so I can add to the pdf that I keep all my recipes?

Right now the data shows one vote, my vote, reflecting "my" feedback on the recipes I brewed.

What you guys think, can we give it a try and see how it goes?

caioz1jp · 12-01-2012, 12:13 AM

Cant figure out why the image is side ways. Nilo #6 is what im calling it lol. Good job man

**nilo** · 12-01-2012, 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caioz1jp

Cant figure out why the image is side ways. Nilo #6 is what im calling it lol. Good job man

Looking good. How did it taste?
Did you do a side by side test already? If so, check my previous post and enter your ratings in the poll.

el_caro · 12-01-2012, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nilo

Here's the #6 scaled to 3gals

Many thanks Nilo

caioz1jp · 12-01-2012, 02:04 PM

It tasted really good. I am going to pick up some blue moon today and do a side by side plus im going to blind some one. The true test will be when the person i brewed this for tries it. If she likes it then its good lol.