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Old 09-12-2009, 04:41 AM   #11
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well I listened to the podcast as well, and from what I remember Eddie you pretty much have nailed exactly what the brewmaster from Deschutes said. Go for it and let us know how it turns out! :-)

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Old 09-12-2009, 04:14 PM   #12
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Are you sure on you hop bill ? I plugged it in to Beer tools and something doesn't jive.
I get bitterness of 180.

If all it is is a doubling of BBP, the clone uses .6 oz of Galena ,25 of of Cascade and .25 oz of Tet.

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Old 09-12-2009, 08:28 PM   #13
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Hmm. Not sure. BeerAlchemy calculates 55.3 IBU's. I assumed the high amount of bittering hops called for was to offset the partial boil (4 gallons) and the high malt content. However, I fully admit that this is the first time I've used any brewing software and may have made a mistake in entering something somewhere along the way.

So there seems to be some question about the hop content, specifically bittering hops, as well as the specialty grain content. Can anyone else comment on either of those aspects? I don't mind brewing something that turns out to be significantly different tasting than my target, but I don't want something undrinkable altogether. Just need a drinkable starting point. Thanks again for the guidance.

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Old 09-12-2009, 11:48 PM   #14
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Here are the specialty grains as per the "Can you brew it show". I have doubled the amounts so as to represent the quantities you would use for the XXI. This would be for a 6 gallon batch
Chocolate Malt 350 lovibond. - (.84 Lbs)
Chocolate Malt 450 lovibond. - (.84lbs)
Carapils- (.84 lbs)
Crystal 80 - (1.40 lbs)

The recipe also calls for 10% wheat malt.

The hops are too much. Not sure what type of utilization you will get with the higher gravity and partial boil, but I think you need to cut all hop additions by about 35% - 40%. That should put you in the IBU range you are looking for.

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Old 09-13-2009, 01:14 PM   #15
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A little bit of playing with Beer Tools this morning and I have the hops right where I want them...

Original Gravity: 1.144 (1.026 - 1.120)
Terminal Gravity: 1.036 (0.995 - 1.035)
Color: 35.55 (1.0 - 50.0)
Alcohol: 14.62% (2.5% - 14.5%)
Bitterness: 55.3 (0.0 - 100.0)

Ingredients:
21.16 lb Pale Ale Malt
2.78 lb Wheat Malt
1.4 lb Crystal Malt 80°L
.84 lb Chocolate Malt
.84 lb Chocolate Malt
.84 lb Cara-Pils® Malt
1.75 oz Cascade (5.5%) - added during boil, boiled 90 min
.5 oz Galena (13.0%) - added during boil, boiled 30 min
.5 oz Tettnanger (4.5%) - added during boil, boiled 5 min

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Old 09-13-2009, 04:57 PM   #16
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Thanks a ton you guys. I'll let you know how it goes this week. Any foreseeable issues with the cocao nibs, coffee, oak chips (quantity and time in?) It will be nice to RDWAHAHB on this one. Thanks again.

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Old 09-13-2009, 05:58 PM   #17
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I have been assuming all this time that we are all talking about whole leaf hops and not pellets. I guess I shouldn't assume 'cause that would suck to be off by so much. So....are we all talking about whole leaf hops?

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Old 09-13-2009, 07:23 PM   #18
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Not me, Pellets....

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Old 09-13-2009, 09:29 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FastEddie View Post
Thanks a ton you guys. I'll let you know how it goes this week. Any foreseeable issues with the cocao nibs, coffee, oak chips (quantity and time in?) It will be nice to RDWAHAHB on this one. Thanks again.
I used cocoa nibs on an RIS in secondary for a month. I used 4 ounces which I roasted in a 350 degree oven for about 30 minutes (my attempt at sanitizing). Over a year later the RIS still had a detectable chocolate flavor. In a big beer like XXI I wouldn't hesitate to double that amount. I think it would pay off nicely.

Coffee is the tricky one. Do some reading on adding cold brewed coffee. I made one coffee beer and used warm coffee, didn't work out so well.
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Old 09-13-2009, 09:51 PM   #20
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Yeah, I did read about the hot/cold coffee debate. I am definitely not going to add the grounds to anything hot to extract the flavor on account of the acids and bitterness. I read an interesting post on cold brewing the coffee and then adding the liquid extract in secondary. I'm mostly wondering if letting the grounds directly mellow in the secondary at the 65*F-ish temp it will sit at for several weeks will be okay. Seems more authentic that way, and true to the original brewer's recipe, but I would sacrifice authenticity for taste any day. How many ounces of coffee did you use and what kind of grind was it?

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