Ss Brewing Technologies Giveaway!

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Recipes/Ingredients > Best Yeast for super malty taste?
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 03-24-2009, 04:13 PM   #1
ApolloSpeed
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 227
Liked 3 Times on 3 Posts

Default Best Yeast for super malty taste?

Which yeast produces the best malty taste? Like in Irish Reds, Oktoberfest....and beers like that. I love the super malty taste!

WLP830? 833? 820? Or something else?


Or is it more about using alot of grain? Like Munich, Vienna, and German Pils.

__________________

*************

ApolloSpeed is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-24-2009, 05:26 PM   #2
mkling
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Chapel Hill, North Carolina
Posts: 730
Liked 5 Times on 5 Posts

Default

Malt type, mash temperature, and yeast strain all matter. For malts, the three you listed above are all good at producing a malty profile, for the Pils especially if you use a decoction mash. Higher mashing temps will also get you there with 155-158F giving you more malty characteristics. Finally, if you do a search for yeast strains and attenuation, you'll find that some yeasts convert fewer sugars to alcohol, making for a more malty beer. (For instance, 820 is listed as 65-73%, 830 as 74-79%, and 833 as 70-76%, so 820 would likely create a more malty finished beer assuming all other things are equal.)

__________________
Currently On Draft: Bamberger Rauch Dunkel, Belgian Blond, Pilsener Urquell clone, Smoked Porter
Bottled: Concord Pyment, Mi'Apa Sparkling Mead, Chimay Blue, Old Simcoe American Barleywine, Old Cantankerous
Fermenting and Conditioning: Pseudo-Decoction Munich Dunkel, Left Hook Bitter
Recently Kicked Kegs: Fresh Hop Pale Ale, Citra Rye IPA
On Deck: Old Rasputin, Northstar IPA, Ur-bock Dunkel
mkling is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-24-2009, 05:39 PM   #3
ApolloSpeed
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 227
Liked 3 Times on 3 Posts

Default

I got you.....so the Attenuation is what leaves that malty flavor behind....


and the higher mash temp like you said. I think I gotcha.

__________________

*************

ApolloSpeed is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-24-2009, 05:40 PM   #4
DeathBrewer
Maniacally Malty
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
DeathBrewer's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Oakland, CA
Posts: 21,825
Liked 204 Times on 113 Posts

Default

Munich and Vienna are nice and malty. Using those in a recipe and mashing a little higher will give you a wonderful malt character.

Yeast attenuation is a little different. It leaves "sweetness" if it doesn't ferment out all the way. More of a sugar sweetness than a malt sweetness.

Think about it like this (a bit simplified, but should help the explanation):

Some yeast can only eat so many simple sugars.

Some yeast can only handle so much alcohol in their environment.

Malt that is mashed at a higher temperature will be more dextrinous, and have more complex sugars.

Malt that is mashed at a lower temperature will be more fermentable and you'll end up with a more dry end product.

There are many other factors, but basically it goes like this:

Mashing high and fermenting with a highly attenuative yeast will leave you with a dextrinous yet dry beer.

Mashing high and fermenting with a lower attenuator will leave you with a dextrinous, malty, sweet beer.

Mashing low and fermenting with a highly attenuative yeast will leave you with a clean, dry beer.

Mashing low and fermenting with a lower attenuative yeast will leave you with a "sweet" beer...basically it leaves sugars behind that other yeast would gobble up and turn into alcohol.

Of course, using certain malts will give you a malty character no matter what you mash at. Vienna and Munich will always impart malt character. Again, there are a great number of factors, but hopefully this will help.

__________________
Easy Partial Mash Brewing - Stovetop All-Grain Brewing

"Death is always with us." - Brewpastor

Quote:
DIAICYLF
We will remember...
DeathBrewer is offline
Likefully Likes This 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-24-2009, 06:50 PM   #5
foxtrot
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Arvada, CO
Posts: 132
Default

Using WLP041 Pacific Ale Yeast makes a super malty ale. I think its from Red Hook.

__________________
foxtrot is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-24-2009, 09:04 PM   #6
ApolloSpeed
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 227
Liked 3 Times on 3 Posts

Default

SO...maybe 50/50 bill of Munich and Vienna....some German pils and maybe a small touch of caramunich, or carapils, or crystal.

Mashing between 155-158f.....a high FG yeast ...fermented in the 50's.....would produce a nice malty beer.

Have I got the plan right?

__________________

*************

ApolloSpeed is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-24-2009, 09:22 PM   #7
DeathBrewer
Maniacally Malty
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
DeathBrewer's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Oakland, CA
Posts: 21,825
Liked 204 Times on 113 Posts

Default

I would mash lower. A high ratio of munich and vienna will make it already malty. Combine that with a low attenuative yeast and you won't need that high mash temp. I'd shoot 152-154°F.

"dextrinous" is not usually a good quality. I try to never mash over 154°F...with the exception of the occasional mild.

Other than that it sounds good.

__________________
Easy Partial Mash Brewing - Stovetop All-Grain Brewing

"Death is always with us." - Brewpastor

Quote:
DIAICYLF
We will remember...
DeathBrewer is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-24-2009, 11:42 PM   #8
BigEd
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,350
Liked 114 Times on 101 Posts
Likes Given: 17

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ApolloSpeed View Post
I got you.....so the Attenuation is what leaves that malty flavor behind....


and the higher mash temp like you said. I think I gotcha.
You can have a well attenuated beer that is still very malty. A good Oktoberfest is exhibit A. Maltiness comes from the malt first and foremost. You can't make chicken salad out of chicken s&%#. Higher mash temps leave more longer chain sugars & dextrins but that affects the body much more than the flavor. An underattenuated beer is more likely to be flabby and sweet rather than malty. Sweet and malty are distinctly different.
__________________
BigEd is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-25-2009, 02:39 PM   #9
pjj2ba
Look under the recliner
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
pjj2ba's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: State College, Pennsylvania
Posts: 3,427
Liked 195 Times on 161 Posts
Likes Given: 22

Default

I use WLP 833 for my lagers that I want to play up the richness in. I use it for my Oktoberfest, bocks and a CAP. For German and Czech Pils, I use WLP 802 or Wyeast 2042. For the later, the maltiness is mainly from the grain bill. I could use the same grain bill for the Pils with the 833 yeast and it would result in a richer beer. Both I would call malty, but the 833 one is richer. I think a lower attentuation is only part of the explaination for this. I suspect it does have alot to do with which sugars the strains will and won't eat, plus other metabolites produced by the yeast.

I've recently bought the WLP 041 Pacific coast ale yeast because it is supposed to play up the malt flavors. I hope to use it soon.

__________________
On Tap: Ger. Pils, OKZ (std Amer. lager), CZ Pils, Maibock,
Kegged and Aging/Lagering:CAP, CAP II, Wheat lager, Imperial Pilsner, Ger. Pils, OKZ (std Amer. lager), OKZ II (for base malt comparison), light beer - yes, light beer, Belgian IPA, IPA,
Secondary:
Primary: Pale Ale
Brewing soon: Saison
Recently kicked : ( IPA, Bock, Saison,
Pilsner Urquell Master Homebrewer
(1st NYC 2011, 2nd NYC 2012)
P U crowns winners in its inaugural master HB competition
pjj2ba is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-25-2009, 03:47 PM   #10
mkling
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Chapel Hill, North Carolina
Posts: 730
Liked 5 Times on 5 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pjj2ba View Post
I use WLP 833 for my lagers that I want to play up the richness in. I use it for my Oktoberfest, bocks and a CAP. For German and Czech Pils, I use WLP 802 or Wyeast 2042. For the later, the maltiness is mainly from the grain bill. I could use the same grain bill for the Pils with the 833 yeast and it would result in a richer beer. Both I would call malty, but the 833 one is richer. I think a lower attentuation is only part of the explaination for this. I suspect it does have alot to do with which sugars the strains will and won't eat, plus other metabolites produced by the yeast.

I've recently bought the WLP 041 Pacific coast ale yeast because it is supposed to play up the malt flavors. I hope to use it soon.
Like you, I've taken pretty much the same grainbill and made a well attenuated pilsner or a rich malty helles depending on the yeast strain I use. I use one of the Pilsner Urquell strains to get the high attenuation for the Pilsner and 833 to get the malty richness of a helles. Of course, they also have very different hopping rates, but to me the yeast makes a big difference in the malty profile of these beers.
__________________
Currently On Draft: Bamberger Rauch Dunkel, Belgian Blond, Pilsener Urquell clone, Smoked Porter
Bottled: Concord Pyment, Mi'Apa Sparkling Mead, Chimay Blue, Old Simcoe American Barleywine, Old Cantankerous
Fermenting and Conditioning: Pseudo-Decoction Munich Dunkel, Left Hook Bitter
Recently Kicked Kegs: Fresh Hop Pale Ale, Citra Rye IPA
On Deck: Old Rasputin, Northstar IPA, Ur-bock Dunkel
mkling is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply



Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Malty taste appearing in keg gtn80 Bottling/Kegging 15 07-31-2009 06:56 PM
Will overly malty taste mellow over time? LeeF All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 7 02-26-2009 04:33 PM
Help me get that malty taste sixtyten All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 17 12-13-2008 02:56 AM
Getting that malty taste? bnscherm All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 4 10-24-2008 07:54 PM
Non-malty taste The Apprentice Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 8 07-25-2005 08:26 AM