Get your HBT Growlers, Shirts and Membership before the Rush!


Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Recipes/Ingredients > Berliner weisse questions
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 12-03-2012, 01:31 AM   #1
blakelyc
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Bergenfield, New Jersey
Posts: 475
Liked 35 Times on 29 Posts
Likes Given: 88

Default Berliner weisse questions

Hi! I have been considering starting a berliner weisse, but I am confused about the technique and I don't have a definitive reference. Is it properly done with a sour mash or just with a bacteria augmented fermentation or sme combination of the two?

I did search around and people seem to do it all three ways but I wasn't able to determine which way is most appropriate and which way makes the best beer.

Thanks!!

__________________
blakelyc is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-03-2012, 06:26 AM   #2
pdxal
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 1,165
Liked 101 Times on 93 Posts
Likes Given: 162

Default

People generally do one or the other, all claim that their method is the best. Up to you to decide. I mash and sour the whole mash for 2-3 days, then sparge and boil so all the bugs are killed and the level of sourness is fixed, but that is not the traditional method. Adding bugs to yeast is the more traditional method AFAIK.

__________________
pdxal is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-04-2012, 04:53 AM   #3
kingwood-kid
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: houston
Posts: 1,438
Liked 91 Times on 84 Posts
Likes Given: 4

Default

I soured post-boil by tossing a handful of uncrushed raw grain into the semi-cooled wort. It only needs to cool down around 100; lacto is most active at 98.6, but still active at normal room temps. The more of a head start you give the lacto, the more sour your beer will be. As pdxal mentioned, when you're satisfied with the sourness, you can boil to kill the lacto, although I didn't do this.

__________________

Say no to intolerance: love gluten and lactose.

kingwood-kid is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-04-2012, 11:12 AM   #4
ddrrseio
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 285
Liked 10 Times on 9 Posts
Likes Given: 5

Default

i've done them twice using sour mash. i have not tried using white labs or wyeast cultures because i heard the souring was very mild. on top of this, like many homebrewers, i am attracted to the chance to make something unique.

if you choose to do a sour mash, make sure to cover the mash with saran wrap or otherwise keep as much o2 out as possible. i learned this trick only before my second brew, and it helped immensely. lacto+o2=truly awful odors - vomit, exploded port-a-potty and so on.

to get the most souring, you'll also want to keep the mash at around 100. i achieved this by keeping my sour mash in an enclosed double boiler. i placed my 5gallon kettle with my sour mash inside my 15 gallon kettle with a warm water bath. i heated the sour mash indirectly via the bath to keep the temperature in the range 95-110. i let it sour mash for 48 hours before doing a normal lauter/sparge.

you can also makes changes to control the level of sour. my first try came out a bit too pungent. rather than try a shorter sour mash, which might be difficult to measure/replicate, i elected to sour mash 48 hours again, but with only half the grains. i mashed and sparged the other half normally at the end of the 48 hours.

you also do not have to boil to kill the lacto, though i chose to do this so that i could keg this beer without contaminating my lines.

__________________
ddrrseio is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-04-2012, 12:56 PM   #5
TNGabe
Feedback Score: 17 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 6,546
Liked 2203 Times on 1492 Posts
Likes Given: 2240

Default

I like the sour mash - grain to glass in a week if you keg or 3 if you bottle. Have't tried pitching lacto, but it seems like that takes a while. Brewing with Wheat describes the historic Berliner Weisse as being a very quick beer.

If you try sour mash +1 on the saran wrap. If you have CO2, even better. I hooked my tank up to the drain on my mash tun and purged whenever I added hot water to keep temp up around 40C. Next time I might mash in a bucket with a heat wrap on it so I don't have to add water and purge multiple times. Saran wrap on surface of mash + another weighted bucket on top should keep it anaerobic and be less hassle.

__________________

Why spend 5 minutes reading when you can just start another thread?

TNGabe is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-04-2012, 02:21 PM   #6
nberna19
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Slidell, LA
Posts: 69
Liked 5 Times on 5 Posts
Likes Given: 3

Default

I have pitched Wyeast Lacto to the primary and have yielded great results. Cool the wort down to pitching temp, pitch the Lacto only, and let ferment. Give it a little taste on a daily basis and when it reaches your desired level of sourness go ahead and pitch your beer yeast (e.g. WLP001, Wyeast 1056, etc.). How long you decide to let the Lacto ferment by itself is up to your personal tastes; anywhere from a couple days to one week is typical. Hope this helps

__________________
nberna19 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-04-2012, 02:48 PM   #7
passedpawn
Waste Allocation Load Lifter - Earth Class
HBT_MODERATOR.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
passedpawn's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: ☼ Clearwater, FL ☼
Posts: 19,905
Liked 3727 Times on 2291 Posts
Likes Given: 3227

Default

My brewing buddy Mike won the NHC Cat. 17 Gold (Sours) with his Berliner Weisse this year. He pitches sacc and lacto as soon as the wort cools. No sour mash. His was moderately sour, but not enough to benefit from syrup. I feel that it was probably not sour enough, but apparently the best judges in the country disagree!

I've made 4 of these, and each time I pitched lacto first, waited for it to start raging, then pitched the sacc. Mine have never gotten very sour. No idea why. I tried variations on temperature without any effect.

__________________
Am I Insane or do I really see Heaven in Your Eyes?
passedpawn is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-04-2012, 03:28 PM   #8
nberna19
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Slidell, LA
Posts: 69
Liked 5 Times on 5 Posts
Likes Given: 3

Default

PassedPawn - How long did you wait until you pitched the sacc? I've heard you can wait as long as a week until you do so as to make it more sour. Never done so myself but now I'm curious

__________________
nberna19 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-04-2012, 03:37 PM   #9
passedpawn
Waste Allocation Load Lifter - Earth Class
HBT_MODERATOR.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
passedpawn's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: ☼ Clearwater, FL ☼
Posts: 19,905
Liked 3727 Times on 2291 Posts
Likes Given: 3227

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nberna19 View Post
PassedPawn - How long did you wait until you pitched the sacc? I've heard you can wait as long as a week until you do so as to make it more sour. Never done so myself but now I'm curious
For me it was between 1 and 2 days. I'd probably wait longer next time.
__________________
Am I Insane or do I really see Heaven in Your Eyes?
passedpawn is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-04-2012, 05:18 PM   #10
kingwood-kid
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: houston
Posts: 1,438
Liked 91 Times on 84 Posts
Likes Given: 4

Default

Lacto strains vary in their ability to ferment assorted disaccharides, such as maltose and sucrose. Most of them can't ferment maltotriose or dextrins. If you want more acidity, you have to make the wort more fermentable, either by mash temp or by simple sugar addition. Store-bought cultures are single-strain, and thus less likely to contain the full range of enzymes needed to fully ferment the wort, as brewers who make 5 gallons of unsweetened Kool-Aid are unlikely to be repeat customers. When I used raw grain to sour, I got pleasantly bracing acidity.

__________________

Say no to intolerance: love gluten and lactose.

kingwood-kid is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply



Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Berliner Weisse rivertranced Sour Ale 32 07-01-2014 06:44 PM
Couple of questions about brewing Berliner Weisse Calder Lambic & Wild Brewing 6 10-14-2012 04:29 AM
Berliner Weisse Javier25 Extract Brewing 0 10-08-2012 12:15 AM
Berliner Weisse Simps Extract Brewing 1 01-08-2012 11:57 PM
Berliner-Weisse help Mustangj Recipes/Ingredients 9 01-15-2011 09:30 AM



Newest Threads

LATEST SPONSOR DEALS