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Old 06-10-2009, 03:14 AM   #11
KevinP
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Wow guys! I really appreciate the discussion here! Thanks to all!

THart: LHBS is a 45 miles round trip. I found myself in that area today and just bought a few things to add to what I already had hoping to be able to come up with something. I could go back if there is something this brew cannot live without. I would like to use the candi, and forgetting after a few goblets is what its all about for me!

ghpeel: I havent had problems getting extract brews down to 1.012 before. NO beano! Wont use it. Great idea on the Jamil show though, I'll take a look for an appropriate show. I've been crunching my way through the Session archives, great stuff. I have learned so much from those guys!

cdburg: I already have MrMalty bookmarked! I always use the pitching calculator. Great tool!

So,
5.5 gallons
Use all the LME
Use a pound of pilsner and wheat DME
Mini-mini mash the 1 pound Belgian pale. (with some of the LME?)
2 pounds candi (or corn?)

That gets OG around 1.080

Color goes darker than style but a again a couple of goblets and I will forget about that.

1.5 oz Hallertau @ 60
0.5 oz Hallertau @ 30
0.5 oz Saaz @ 30 <- for THart

That gets IBU around 30

2 cups of the wheat DME for a starter

Sounding OK?

Please critique.

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Old 06-10-2009, 04:12 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinP View Post
Wow guys! I really appreciate the discussion here! Thanks to all!

THart: LHBS is a 45 miles round trip. I found myself in that area today and just bought a few things to add to what I already had hoping to be able to come up with something. I could go back if there is something this brew cannot live without. I would like to use the candi, and forgetting after a few goblets is what its all about for me!

ghpeel: I havent had problems getting extract brews down to 1.012 before. NO beano! Wont use it. Great idea on the Jamil show though, I'll take a look for an appropriate show. I've been crunching my way through the Session archives, great stuff. I have learned so much from those guys!

cdburg: I already have MrMalty bookmarked! I always use the pitching calculator. Great tool!

So,
5.5 gallons
Use all the LME
Use a pound of pilsner and wheat DME
Mini-mini mash the 1 pound Belgian pale. (with some of the LME?)
2 pounds candi (or corn?)

That gets OG around 1.080

Color goes darker than style but a again a couple of goblets and I will forget about that.

1.5 oz Hallertau @ 60
0.5 oz Hallertau @ 30
0.5 oz Saaz @ 30 <- for THart

That gets IBU around 30

2 cups of the wheat DME for a starter

Sounding OK?

Please critique.
You're going to need much more than 2 cups of DME for the starter. With a beer that big, you're going to need to step a single vial up multiple times, or do a smaller starter with multiple vials...

For the recipe, it all depends what you're looking for. 1 oz of hops at 30 minutes is going to give it quite a bit of hops flavor, probably more than the guidelines. If I were looking for some flavor, I'd go with .5 oz at 20 minutes and .5 oz at 5 minutes. That will probably still be a bit more hops flavor than "style" (if you care), but it will split the hops between flavor and aroma additions. One 30 minute addition won't give you too much in the way of hop aroma. Most, if no all of it, will boil off.

I would go with the table sugar over the candi. Save the candi for a style where it would be more appropriate. Use the cheaper table sugar for this one. I'm also not sure that the 1 lb mini mash is really going to do much for you. It seems like more trouble than it's worth to me. I'd drop it, even if you lose a tiny bit on the OG. Go with the LME, the DME and the sugar.
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Old 06-10-2009, 05:19 AM   #13
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Well cdburg you are correct.... MrMalty points to a 5 liter starter with one vial of yeast. I do not have the ability to produce a 5 liter starter. 2 tops.

Mmmm North Coast Pranqster is is this style. I would love to get something like that!
They advertise 7.6% ABV and 20 IBU...

So I scale down to a not so strong Belgian Golden.
Ditch the sugar (I may not be able to resist using some candi.....) and the mash. (never done a brew without at least steeping grains and this makes me nervous)

7lb pale LME
1lb pilsner DME
1lb wheat DME

1 oz Hallertau @ 60
0.5 oz saaz @ 60

OG 1.062
IBU 21

WLP570 Stepped up to a 2 liter starter

Sounds pretty simple albeit MUCH different than the original run.

I think I'll go to the store now and pick up some Pranqster....

Thoughts?

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Old 06-10-2009, 11:04 AM   #14
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As requested, thoughts:

Use sugar, at least 10% of the grist. You will not achieve the dry finish necessary with extracts. It simply isn't possible. It's not a function of the amount of yeast pitched (more on this in a bit), it's a function of what goes into the maltster's mash tun. A pound of cane sugar (10% of the grist in 5.5 gallons) will get you right round 1.070 and help to dry out the finish.

You need not pitch 2 or 5 liters of foamy, active starter. You can pitch slurry. Brew your starter ahead of time (duh) but give yourself a couple extra days. When you've stepped it up as large as you can, crash-chill it. That'll settle the yeast into a slurry. When it comes time to pitch, decant all but a little of the spent starter 'beer' and pitch slurry according to Mr Malty. No volume issues there! I use growlers for that purpose. If I need a crapton of yeast, I get two growlers going.

Don't be nervous about making a beer without steeping anything. You can get everything you need from the extract and sugar, so steeping would be pointless. It'll still be good beer!

Cheers,

Bob

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Old 06-10-2009, 01:20 PM   #15
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Adding the sugar after high kraeusen might help keep the yeast going better.

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Old 06-10-2009, 01:44 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinP View Post
Well cdburg you are correct.... MrMalty points to a 5 liter starter with one vial of yeast. I do not have the ability to produce a 5 liter starter. 2 tops.

Mmmm North Coast Pranqster is is this style. I would love to get something like that!
They advertise 7.6% ABV and 20 IBU...

So I scale down to a not so strong Belgian Golden.
Ditch the sugar (I may not be able to resist using some candi.....) and the mash. (never done a brew without at least steeping grains and this makes me nervous)

7lb pale LME
1lb pilsner DME
1lb wheat DME

1 oz Hallertau @ 60
0.5 oz saaz @ 60

OG 1.062
IBU 21

WLP570 Stepped up to a 2 liter starter

Sounds pretty simple albeit MUCH different than the original run.

I think I'll go to the store now and pick up some Pranqster....

Thoughts?
If I were you, I'd take out all of some of the wheat DME and replace it with a pound or two of table sugar. You can then use the DME for a larger starter. You're going to need the at least some sugar in it to help dry it out. It's very appropriate for Belgian beers and needed, especially with most extract, to get the beer as dry as needed.

It's important that the starter is the proper size too. You don't want the beer to get stuck at 1.020 or so. The sugar will help, but you need a lot of healthy yeast to get it done too.
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Old 06-10-2009, 05:48 PM   #17
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7 lb pale LME 70%
1 lb pilsner DME 10%
2 lb table sugar 20% (for sure not the Belgian candy????)
1 0z hallertau @60
1 Oz Saaz @60

WLP570 with as big a starter as I can make (I do use a growler. NQ3X, you have used two?? I guess I never considered using two.... I have several....hmmmm)

OG 1.070
IBU 26

I am starting my starter this afternoon for a Saturday brew day so I have a few days to nail down a consensus on ingredients.

Could it be this simple?

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Old 06-10-2009, 06:13 PM   #18
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Use the clear candisuiker if you've already got it. If you don't, there's no reason on earth why you'd spend that kind of dosh, as it adds precisely nothing in terms of character. Use plain old table sugar.

Yeah, I've used two growlers when needed. One gallon glass juice jugs also work nicely.

Bob

P.S. Yes, it is that simple. The best beers usually are.

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Old 06-10-2009, 11:44 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THart View Post
... 1.008 - 1.018, guidlines ...
Oops! That's what I get for quoting from memory. But I do have to say that the Golden's that I enjoy do feel a lot dryer than 1.018, but maybe there's some other reason for that. Mine (in secondary right now) is at a bone dry 1.006 so maybe I was subconsciously wanting it to be right on style!

Also, I concur with the tips on getting a starter built up. That's very crucial. I did a 2-step start for mine, in a gallon jug, and it nearly blew my beer right out of the carboy on the 3-4th days.
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Old 06-11-2009, 03:49 AM   #20
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Well the starter is started!

NQ3X: I've got the candi so I'm going to use it. Adds nothing/same effect as table sugar? Should this stuff be called candi sucker instead of candi sugar? Whatever, it will sure sound fancy to my friends when I tell them whats in it.

Brewing Saturday. Keep em crossed for my first Belgian

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