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Old 02-25-2011, 08:01 PM   #11
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I did research on the yeast, and London III is used very frequently for BW and several commercial brewers use this yeast.
London III is certainly fine for this, but scottish yeast will bring out more of the scottish characteristics and evolve the peat better. Plus it does have a higher alcohol tolerance. I have no problem with how high your IBUs are, but I would consider lowering them some to make it more scottish. Say you're right and calculated 120 puts you perceived at 65, I'd still cut it to around 80-90 calculated to make the perception closer to 40-50.

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Also, mashing that low you'll have very little body to the brew, so not much malty character at all... ... Mashing as low as you stated, you'll probably finish closer to 1.010
... ummm no. no yeast is getting 92% attenuation out of this. I'd guess its finishing around 1.03, assuming the yeast survives. with a beer of this size, no matter how low you mash its going to have plenty of body. when dealing with bigger beers, you're mashing to maximize attenuation.
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Old 02-25-2011, 08:17 PM   #12
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A "Scottish twist" would still mean LESS IBU's... Also, mashing that low you'll have very little body to the brew, so not much malty character at all... With that much IBU's, and mashing that low, it's more in line with an IIPA... Or, an American Barley wine with a little hint of Scotland... A very small hint at that... IF you really want your English Barleywine, then tone DOWN the IBU's and mash higher (at least get into the medium body range)... Otherwise, stop calling it an English Barleywine 'with a Scottish twist' since it's really NOT that...
who cares

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BTW, your original recipe has an IBU rating of 122.4... So far beyond English Barleywine it's not even funny... Almost double the max for the style (which is 70)...
have you ever made a big beer? i don't think you have. Something that'll finish in the high 20's at best will need 100 IBU's just to balance it out. plus after extended aging, which will reduce bitterness, it should be fine.

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I would also be concerned that the London Ale III yeast wouldn't be able to finish fermenting the brew all the way...
i agree. use a scottish strain. or us05.


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Mashing as low as you stated, you'll probably finish closer to 1.010,
wait what?? that's just ridiculous.

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Imperial American Barleywine...
baaaahahahahah!

OP, i'd say you have something. oh, and try not to take too seriously the advice of someone who's made a grand total of 7 beers in their career.
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Old 02-25-2011, 08:21 PM   #13
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Yeah, I even use scottish ale yeast in one of my more American-style barleywines. It's great. And you need a huge starter (I always brew a smaller Scottish ale just prior to my barleywine, so I can have a nice huge yeast cake to harvest and pitch from).
I always do this - pitch from a regular OG beer into a huge beer. In fact, when I get yeast I always plan a regular beer and a bigger beer at the same time. I would never try pitching into a barleywine using yeast in a starter - your starter would have to be so big it would be a waste of DME. Why not just brew a small batch so instead of dumping the 'starter liquid', you can bottle/keg it and enjoy it?
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Old 02-25-2011, 08:27 PM   #14
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Hoss, that's no English Barleywine, it's an American Barleywine with ALL those hops added... You're looking at about 115 IBU there... WAY outside the English BarleyWine style... English BarleyWine's have 30-70 IBU's...

If you want to actually MAKE an English Barleywine, then drop the Magnum hops. You could also use Fuggles for the flavor addition, at 20 minutes (1 ounce), and shift the 15 minute EKG to 5-10 minutes. That would give you about 48 IBU (depending on the AA% of the hops you get)... You could also try using Target hops for bittering (it's included in info about the English Barleywine's)... Those have a bit more AA% in them than Northdown hops, typically. Switching to Target hops, for a 60 minute boil, would get you right about 50 IBU. Unless you have made an English Barleywine before (doesn't seem like you have yet) with more IBU that you really enjoyed, I'd aim more for the middle of a style's range for a first time.

I would try 1/2 pound of the smoked peat malt for a start. Unless you've tried an English Barleywine that you like that has ~4% of the grain bill in smoked peat malt.

I also agree that you could use a Scottish Ale yeast, like Wyeast 1728 for this. Actually probably a better idea than the London Ale III since that tuckers out around 10% ABV... You could go to 12% ABV with that recipe (and the right yeast)...

I'd also be interested in knowing your mash schedule/plan for this one...

Also, keep in mind, Scottish brews are historically LOW IBU brews. So if you want to make a Scottish Barleywine, you would want LOWER IBU's, or at least in the bottom 1/3-1/4 of the range. Not where you started...

I would suggest running your recipe through some software so that you can actually SEE how many IBU's you're going to get with your hop selection, schedule, and amounts... Otherwise, you could make something that will make your face implode due to high bitterness... Or not even be drinkable in December, of this year... Maybe it will be in another year, or three...
Nice post - are you trying to get the OP to conform to style? I thought he made it obvious it WASN'T a style. Hoss. Do not listen to him regarding IBUs. Your tounge can only detect up to a certain point any way (under 100 I believe), and on Barleywines I want lots to balance the malt. Make it how you want to make it, brewing exactly to style is only important in NHB Competitions.
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Old 02-25-2011, 09:17 PM   #15
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Nice post - are you trying to get the OP to conform to style? I thought he made it obvious it WASN'T a style. Hoss. Do not listen to him regarding IBUs. Your tounge can only detect up to a certain point any way (under 100 I believe), and on Barleywines I want lots to balance the malt. Make it how you want to make it, brewing exactly to style is only important in NHB Competitions.
I believe he was only pointing out that to give it a truer Scottish character, the IBUs (and, as others have pointed out, yeast) should be changed. That's IF the OP actually wants a Scottish-type beer. Nobody said about anything being precisely to style.
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Old 02-25-2011, 09:45 PM   #16
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With a beer that big, you need hops to balance it out, especially if you plan to age it. If you underhop, and expect to age some of the beers for a number of years, you could end up with something out of whack and overly sweet some 5+ years down the road. I have a local brewpub that makes an 11% barleywine with their (originally Fuller's) house yeast. It's thoroughly English in character and clocks in at 107 IBUs, nevermind silly style descriptions. I don't buy that argument either. Magnum is a nice, clean bittering hop, which will be fine for bittering and will work well with the English hops as the late additions.

Most any yeast will do fine a small amount above the advertised ABV tolerance, if you treat them right. Again, big starter, good oxygenation, cool temperature (maybe rising throughout), and lots of time. You can even add some nutrient about 24-48 hours into fermentation to help keep things going strong. It seems 1318 is a fine choice for a barleywine. Keep us posted, OP, as I love that strain but have never used it before in such a big beer. I'd like to hear how things go for you, in as much detail as you'd care to relate.

Oh, and brewed now, I'm sure this will be great by Christmas. It'll probably be better in later years, but it will definitely be good by the end of this year.

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Old 02-26-2011, 02:55 PM   #17
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I am trying for a English Barleywine style with a scottish flair. I am not conforming to strict style guidelines.

Everything I read on big malty beers is you need to really hop them as you need high IBU's to balance out the malt. I feel the hops will balance nicely.

I was thinking of using the Scottish ale yeast, but I have read that several commercial brewers use London III. I made a 1 gallon starter, but I added some hops to the boil and am adding some dry hops into fermenter. I dont know what it will be like, but what the hell, its beer (SMaSH).

Yes I plan to age this at least 9 months before the first bottle is opened and plan on putting a stash away for several years.

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Old 02-26-2011, 03:33 PM   #18
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Ok, I am brewing my Scottish Barley Wine. I know there is no style for it, but the recipe is based on an English barleywine, but with a Scottish flair.

21 lb Golden Promise
1 lb Peat malt
1 lb UK Crystal 60

2 oz Magnum 120min (I know American hops, but couldn't find a good bittering UK hop)
1 oz Northdown at 60
1 oz Northdown at 30
1 oz EKG at 15
1 oz Bramlimng Cross at 5

Using Wyeast London III

Questions:
1. What do you think of the recipe?
2. I made a 2L starter, is that big enough?

I will be adding yeast nutrient.

Primary for 8 weeks
Secondary 8 weeks
Bottle condition 4 months
Drink at Christmas?
Hops are perfect. Let it roll. Bitterness ratio (IBU/OG) looks like about 0.6 (~ 80/140), which is dead center for style. See this: Bitterness Ratio Chart

Woah, that's a lot of peated malt. Make sure you've read all the warnings here before you do that. Me, I'd like a hint of smoke without it becoming dominant.

That is a very big beer. You really, really want to work hard at optimizing attenuation and fermentability. Probably too late, but i would have brewed another beer first, then racked this barleywine onto the yeast cake. That's what I've done in the past. Mash low, 148. A long mash will significantly improve the fermentability of the wort (lots of info here at Kai's site, with experimental data). Consider mashing 2 hours. Oxygenate well (unless you are using a yeast cake... she'll blow if you do that). I'd just use S-05 or Wy 1056. You don't have to worry about the yeast providing any character to this beer.

You could easily partygyle the mash and make a mild from the spent grains.

Finally, do pitch new yeast at bottling time. You'll probably need it. Dry yeast is fine for that. Just rehydrate and mix into bottling bucket.
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Old 02-26-2011, 05:46 PM   #19
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Hops are perfect.
Agreed.

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she'll blow if you do that).

You talk about that like it's a bad thing.
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