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Old 08-05-2010, 03:25 AM   #1
kjjohns5
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Default Assistance With a Base Saison Recipe, Please?

I'm trying to work on a Saison recipe, in which I plan on adding adjuncts to, but first I need to make sure that I have a solid Saison base. I'll likely brew it base before I decide to experiment with it. All I've been hearing is how this yeast strand dries brews out. Will I even need that Corn Sugar, for example? Should I expect it to reach about 7% without it?

Any help would me much appreciated. Thanks.

7 gallon boil, yielding 5.5 gallon batch
Estimated OG: 1.064
Estimated FG: 1.012
Color: 7 SRM
IBU: 24
ABV: 6.9%


65% 8.0 lbs Pilsner (2 Row) German
12% 1.5 lbs Munich Malt - 20L
8% 1.0 lbs Corn Sugar (Dextrose)
8% 1.0 lbs Vienna Malt
4% 0.5 lbs CaraPils
2% 0.25 lbs White Wheat Malt

0.5 oz Citra (12.3%) @ FWH
0.5 oz EKG (7.2%) @ 5 min

Wyeast French Saison (3711) - Starter

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Old 08-05-2010, 03:44 AM   #2
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That looks like a good base recipe for a saison to me. I just finished up a batch with .5 lbs corn sugar and 1 lb honey. WY3711 tore right through it all and it still isn't that dry of a beer. In a style like this I think the simple fermentables really help.

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Old 08-05-2010, 04:07 AM   #3
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My go-to saison recipe is 10lb pilsner, 1lb munich 9L, 1lb corn sugar, mashed at 150 and hopped with ~30 IBU of of sterling and saaz. That's on the light end of things, and sometimes I'll up the Munich or swap to a more caramelized sugar for a deeper color. From there I play with adjuncts, spices, brett, etc etc.

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Old 08-05-2010, 02:46 PM   #4
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Awesome, thanks guys! So you think this is a solid base?

The reason I'm working on this, is because I was thinking that a saison with vanilla, macadamia, and coconut would be awesome. Usually those are used for porters or stouts, but I'm thinking with the right delicate additions, it could be phenomenal.

The Macadamia nut required a lot of research, and I never really got a definitive answer on how to add it to beer. Stone (Coconut, Macadamia, Coffee Porter) looked like they steeped the nuts in the whirlpool, other people say you need to use nuts in the secondary. I've had Lazy Magnolia's Pecan Brown Ale, it's delicious. After researching that, I found out that thy actually use the Pecans in the Mash. So I was thinking of maybe using the Macadamia nuts, about 10 oz crushed, in the mash. I don't really want to put them in the boil at all, because I'm afraid of extracting tannins. As well, I would roast the nuts first in order to extract some of the unwanted oils (That's also why there's light additions of Crapils and Wheat in the grain bill, to offset any oils that I get that would tamper with the body of the beer).

After researching coconut, Stone as well put that in the whirlpool, but most homebrewers put it in the 2ndary. I think I'll do that. So about 8 oz of toasted coconut flakes in a muslin bag. Also, I'd throw in about 1 vanilla bean. Those would sit for about 2 weeks I'd think.

So the grain bill would turn out to be:

62% 8.0 lbs Pilser (2 Row) German
12% 1.5 lbs Munich Malt 20L
8% 1.0 lbs Vienna Malt
8% 1.0 lbs Corn Sugar
5% 10 oz Toasted Macadamia Nuts
4% 8 oz Carapils
2% 4 oz White Wheat Malt

0.5 Citra (12.3%) @ FWH
0.5 EKG (7.2%) @ 5 min

Irish Moss @ 10 min

1 Vanilla Bean 2ndary 14 days
8 oz Toasted Coconut Flakes 2ndary 14 days

Any thoughts?

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Old 08-05-2010, 03:23 PM   #5
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I have a feeling that will be too much coconut...I had a coconut porter with less coconut than that and it was absolutely overpowering even 6mo. later. I don't want to tell you what to do. just giving you personal histroy with it. the different grain bill and yeast could drastically change that.

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I have also been to the bar tonite...so my evaluations may be skewed.
Currently in the works...

Primary 1:Honey Rye Saison
Primary 2:
Primary 3:
Secondary:
Secondary:

Up next: Rye Amber Ale, Brett Braggot.
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Old 08-05-2010, 03:33 PM   #6
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Thanks man! How much would you suggest? I'm all ears for advice! Also, just read an article about Vertical Epic 09-09-09 that Stone wrote, in which they discuss their flavor extraction process. When they made their Coconut, Macadamia, Coffee Porter, they only used the additives in the whirlpool. Essentially, they just steeped them while turning the wort over and over. How long, I don't know, but has anyone used this method at all?

In that case I would just put the Vanilla bean, Coconut, and Macadamia, in steeping bags and whirlpool it.. Any thoughts?

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Old 08-05-2010, 05:23 PM   #7
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I would say start with 2oz, and let it go for 3 days, taste/smell test, if the coconut isnt to the level you want by day 6, add 2 more oz. check day 8 then 10.

for whirlpooling, if you have the ability to do it is great. Otherwise more people substitute whirlpooling for flameout. So just throw em in when the gas goes off and let it soak as the chiller does its thing (if an immersion). I think most people say whirlpooling is 10-15min.

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I have also been to the bar tonite...so my evaluations may be skewed.
Currently in the works...

Primary 1:Honey Rye Saison
Primary 2:
Primary 3:
Secondary:
Secondary:

Up next: Rye Amber Ale, Brett Braggot.
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Old 08-05-2010, 05:30 PM   #8
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Just curious, are trying to keep the beer from drying out? I'd drop the cara pils if you want it dry.

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Old 08-05-2010, 05:54 PM   #9
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No, I don't have the Carapils in there so it wont dry out, I put it in there to assist with the macadamia nuts. I read from Lazy Magnolia that Wheat and Carapils in the bill will help to make sure that any oils from the nuts wont kill the body and head retention of the beer.

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Old 08-07-2010, 05:38 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KyleWolf View Post
I would say start with 2oz, and let it go for 3 days, taste/smell test, if the coconut isnt to the level you want by day 6, add 2 more oz. check day 8 then 10.

for whirlpooling, if you have the ability to do it is great. Otherwise more people substitute whirlpooling for flameout. So just throw em in when the gas goes off and let it soak as the chiller does its thing (if an immersion). I think most people say whirlpooling is 10-15min.
That's the info I'm looking for! Thanks. I have a friend who made a pepper PA and it was delicious. He put the peppers in for about 15-20 min at flame out. I think I'll try this route. Just bag up the coconut, macadamia, and vanilla. I'm thinking about doing a 1-3 gallon batch first, as an experiment.
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