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Old 10-28-2008, 12:27 AM   #1
Eastside Brewer
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Default Anyone brew a dopplebock?

I am thinking about brewing a dopplebock, I have no experience with this style, what do you think about this;

6 gallon batch -

13 # of German Pilsner 2.0 srm
3 # of German Munich 20.0 srm
3# of German Vienna 3.5 srm
1.5# melanoiden malt 20.0 srm
0.5 # Choc. 350 srm

mash 150 for 75 min.
mash out 168 10 min.

boil 90 min. -

1.5 oz. EKG @ 60 min.
1.25 oz. EKG @30 min.

WLP 833 - German Bock Lager Yeast

OG 1.101
FG 1.025

21 days @ 49 degrees
5 days @ 56 degrees
7 days @ 36 degrees

Lager in keg for ?? months??

Any input is greatly appreciated.

Eastside

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Old 10-28-2008, 12:32 AM   #2
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I've made three batches of doppelbock, so I'm not expert, but your recipe looks pretty solid. Here are some changes I'd make

Use de-husked caramunich instead of chocolate
Use tettnang instead of EKG
Only do a 60 min hop addition (I would try to stay around 25 IBUs)
If you can, boil for a long time (2+ hrs)
Pitch a very large starter.
I lagered one of mine 3 months and one of mine 7 months, I didn't detect much difference in flavor.

Hope this helps!

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Old 10-28-2008, 12:49 AM   #3
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Doppelbocks generally rely heavily on Munich malts for their aroma and taste. I'd go with at least 50% Munich. Keep at least 20% Pilsner as insurance against to low diastatic power (enzyme strength) of the mash. Use roastes malts sparingly if any. Some crystal malts work well. Up to 10% I'd say.

90 min boil is ok. Back in the old days they boiled this beer a really long time but I don't see much benefit in a longer boil. I even boil for only 60 min, but I also use decoction mashing for this beer which encompasses some extended boiling.

This beer ages really well. After you lager for a few month, bottle or rack to a new keg and age at celler temperatures for a few more month to let the dark fruit aromas develop.

And brew a lighter strength lager before that beer to get enough yeast to pitch a proper amount.

Kai

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Old 10-28-2008, 01:32 AM   #4
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Thanks for the suggestions, I'll probly brew this in a couplw of weeks. Do you think 3 viles of yeast in a 4500ml starter on a stir plate will be enough to ferment this beer?

Thanks Again,

Eastside

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Old 10-28-2008, 02:28 AM   #5
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Thanks for the suggestions, I'll probly brew this in a couplw of weeks. Do you think 3 viles of yeast in a 4500ml starter on a stir plate will be enough to ferment this beer?
No need for 3 vials when using a starter. By pitching twice or 3x the amount you are not getting 2x or 3x growth anyway. Save that money and pitch only one vial in the starter. Make sure you aerate the starter well.

Another elegant way of propagating yeast, if you plan to use 4500ml of wort anyway, is to make a large starter of lower gravity (e.g. dillute the 4500 ml to 2.5 gal) and ferment in a carboy. That size of a liquid can hold much more O2 and the lower gravity is better for the yeast. Ferment it out (occasional shaking helps), decant the spent starter beer and rack the wort on top.

Kai
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Old 10-28-2008, 09:35 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser View Post
Another elegant way of propagating yeast, if you plan to use 4500ml of wort anyway, is to make a large starter of lower gravity (e.g. dillute the 4500 ml to 2.5 gal) and ferment in a carboy. That size of a liquid can hold much more O2 and the lower gravity is better for the yeast.
I am interested in that topic, because I often use thin wort from last runnings (4-5 Plato) for starters, an I was wondering if it hurts or helps the yeast.
You say, thinner starter is better for the yeast, but I need to use more wort, to supply enough sugars?
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Old 10-28-2008, 02:56 PM   #7
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You say, thinner starter is better for the yeast, but I need to use more wort, to supply enough sugars?


Yes, thinner is better if you keep the amount of total extract in that wort the same. Yeast don’t like CO2 and alcohol and a larger amount of wort can also hold more O2. Yeast companies like WYeast, WL and Danstar grow yeast in a wort of less than 1% sugar content and continuously add new extract at the rate at which it is consumed by the yeast. This is a little difficult to do for the home brewer.

I still have to make a coparative evaluation between a 2 l starter at 10P and a 10 l starter at 2P.

Kai
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Old 10-28-2008, 06:03 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser View Post
No need for 3 vials when using a starter. By pitching twice or 3x the amount you are not getting 2x or 3x growth anyway. Save that money and pitch only one vial in the starter. Make sure you aerate the starter well.

Another elegant way of propagating yeast, if you plan to use 4500ml of wort anyway, is to make a large starter of lower gravity (e.g. dillute the 4500 ml to 2.5 gal) and ferment in a carboy. That size of a liquid can hold much more O2 and the lower gravity is better for the yeast. Ferment it out (occasional shaking helps), decant the spent starter beer and rack the wort on top.

Kai
When I looked at Mr. Malty it said For 6 gallons of 1.101 gravity that I would need 800+ billion cells. It suggested 3 viles of yeast in a 4500 ml starter on a stir plate for a lager. The setting is for 99A% viability. Am I not looking at it correctly? I agree a lower gravity starter is better for growth, so Is 1.030 okay for the starter gravity?

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Old 10-28-2008, 07:14 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser View Post
No need for 3 vials when using a starter. By pitching twice or 3x the amount you are not getting 2x or 3x growth anyway. Save that money and pitch only one vial in the starter.
Yes, I think the same, I even divide the vial and freeze the yeast.

But have you seen the slider "Growth rate" on MrMaly calc? It suggests, that when you pitch more vials, you can make smaller starter.

I think, yeast multiply unlil they reach certain density, no matter how many of them were initially. That setting is a puzzle for me.
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Old 10-28-2008, 07:46 PM   #10
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1.101 gravity
That's a heck of a doppelbock. I'd still say that just one vial is good enough. starter gavity of 1.030 is fine. Just make it large. almost 2 gal. That's why most brewers bew a lower gravity beer to harvest the yeast from.

Kai
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