All late hop addition APA...what constitutes "late?"

**StunnedMonkey** · 11-05-2008, 01:58 PM

I'm going to try an American Pale Ale with all the hops added late, as is sometimes discussed by Jamil and others as a way to get a less harsh bitterness.

Grainbill:

10 lbs Maris Otter
.5 lbs Munich
.5 lbs Victory
.5 lbs Crystal 40
.5 lbs Crystal 20

est OG at 5.5 gal is 1.055

I'm going for around 40 IBU's with Centennial and Cascades.

If I add 2 oz Centennial at 20 minutes left in the boil, and some more centennial/cascades at 5 min and also at 0 minutes, I should be pretty close to the 40. The bittering Centennial will be pellets, and the flavoring/aroma centennial will be whole hops. All cascades are pellets.

For those who have done an all late hop brew, is 20 minutes for the bittering addition about right? Should I go longer with a bit less, or shorter with a bit more?

saq · 11-05-2008, 02:59 PM

If you want bitter put some in at the start of boil, but put the most of it towards the end of boil and dry hop. I made a IIPA that was 60 IBU, but had a lot of late addition hops and dry hopping and it was outstanding!

**StunnedMonkey** · 11-05-2008, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saq

If you want bitter put some in at the start of boil...

I think the point of an all-late addition is to get the same bitterness by adding more bittering hops in the last few minutes than you would at a 60 minute addition. So instead of say, 1 oz at 60 minutes to acheive 30 IBU's, you'd add 2.5 oz at 20 minutes to get the same IBU's. Those particular numbers would vary by hop of course. The idea as discussed by Jamil and others is that you get the same bittering, but it comes across as a more rounded bitterness than a full 60 minute addition.

**GilaMinumBeer** · 11-05-2008, 03:35 PM

Late is when your hop timer goes off while you were in the pooper doing Rorshack (sp) test with the exploded beer stain on the shower roof.

as to what you should do depends on how conservative you want to be with hops. The late hop is meant to get a lot of flavor and aroma into the wort at the last few minutes. It works great but is wasteful considering there are other methods (FWH, Hop Tea, etc) available to achieve the same/similar result.

saq · 11-05-2008, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StunnedMonkey

I think the point of an all-late addition is to get the same bitterness by adding more bittering hops in the last few minutes than you would at a 60 minute addition. So instead of say, 1 oz at 60 minutes to acheive 30 IBU's, you'd add 2.5 oz at 20 minutes to get the same IBU's. Those particular numbers would vary by hop of course. The idea as discussed by Jamil and others is that you get the same bittering, but it comes across as a more rounded bitterness than a full 60 minute addition.

Correct, but you could use a small amount earlier in the boil to get some more IBUs and then do a big late hop (like at 5) additions to get the bitterness up more, but retain a lot of the flavor/aroma of the delicious hops.

My latest IIPA just got cracked last night and it was good. I did a 1.5oz columbus addition at 90, then did 1oz simcoe, 2oz crystal, 2oz chinook. 2oz simcoe and 2oz crystal and 2oz amarillo were dry hopped for 4 weeks and 1gal was aged on oak for 4 weeks and then blended together at the end.

I'll post the recipe shortly.

Heres my beer: http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f69/legendary-oaked-iipa-87320/

**Saccharomyces** · 11-05-2008, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StunnedMonkey

10 lbs Maris Otter
.5 lbs Munich
.5 lbs Victory
.5 lbs Crystal 40
.5 lbs Crystal 20

I'd lose some of the crystal, maybe toss out the C20 and keep the C40? I did something similar and it was too much crystal, the MO and Victory are pretty strong in the malt category already so I found the caramel flavor from the crystal to be annoying.

Quote:

If I add 2 oz Centennial at 20 minutes left in the boil, and some more centennial/cascades at 5 min and also at 0 minutes, I should be pretty close to the 40. The bittering Centennial will be pellets, and the flavoring/aroma centennial will be whole hops. All cascades are pellets.

That'll work. I would use a LOT of hops for the 5 minute addition. You didn't specify how much you are thinking of using. I would probably throw in an ounce of centennial and two ounces of cascades, and another ounce of each at flameout or dry hop.

If I can ever find Summit hops under $5/oz I plan to do a 20 minute Summit IPA.

**StunnedMonkey** · 11-06-2008, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saccharomyces

I'd lose some of the crystal, maybe toss out the C20 and keep the C40? I did something similar and it was too much crystal, the MO and Victory are pretty strong in the malt category already so I found the caramel flavor from the crystal to be annoying.

Yeah. The grain bill is Jamil's, from his American Pale Ale podcast. But I'm thinking maybe he spec'd American 2-row as opposed to Maris Otter, so maybe scaling back the crystal would be prudent. He really wanted both 20L and 40L together, so maybe I can drop it down to .25 lb each when paired with the MO.

slim chillingsworth · 11-06-2008, 05:13 AM

i just did something similar, here's the recipe:

Code:

mount        Item                                      Type         % or IBU      
12.00 lb      Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM)            Grain        84.81 %       
1.00 lb       Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM)     Grain        7.07 %        
0.50 lb       Victory Malt (25.0 SRM)                   Grain        3.53 %        
0.50 lb       Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM)                     Grain        3.53 %        
0.15 lb       Pale Chocolate (200.0 SRM)                Grain        1.06 %        
1.00 oz       Simcoe [13.00 %]  (Dry Hop 14 days)       Hops          -            
1.00 oz       Williamette [3.80 %]  (Dry Hop 14 days)   Hops          -            
0.50 oz       Simcoe [13.00 %]  (20 min)                Hops         13.3 IBU      
1.00 oz       Cascade [5.50 %]  (20 min)                Hops         11.2 IBU      
0.50 oz       Cascade [5.50 %]  (10 min)                Hops         3.4 IBU       
1.00 oz       Simcoe [13.00 %]  (10 min)                Hops         15.9 IBU      
0.50 oz       Simcoe [13.00 %]  (5 min)                 Hops         4.4 IBU       
0.50 oz       Cascade [5.50 %]  (5 min)                 Hops         1.8 IBU       
0.25 tsp      Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 min)                Misc                       
1 Pkg        SafAle American Ale (DCL Yeast #US-05)    Yeast-Ale

the beer came out with AMAZING hop aroma and flavor (as well as nice malt depth), but there was definitely something missing. all that hop presence needed some more bitterness to back it up, which i think i could have accomplished with a small FWH or 60 minute addition.

good luck with your brew.

**Chriso** · 11-06-2008, 02:03 PM

BierMuncher did something on this too: http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f66/six-shooter-pale-ale-ag-4-5-late-addition-only-56950/ http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/am-i-nuts-hops-schedule-49830/

**TexLaw** · 11-06-2008, 02:17 PM

If you just want to experiment with late hop additions, do so by all means. However, if you want to save hops, I've had great results getting smooth bitterness from first wort hopping.

TL