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Old 04-26-2013, 10:52 AM   #11
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If you like Saisons and Belgians try an Old Ale fermented with a Belgian yeast. I have one that I absolutely love. It has just started aging, but even after a couple months the flavor is evolving nicely. I made my version of Old Peculiar (commercial brand named because it has a much lower gravity than most old ales). I upped the gravity back up to the Old Ale style range, but stuck with the Fuggles only hop profile. I call it Old Irregular:

It is still a bit lower gravity than many think necessary for aging, but should do fine. Bump up the gravity if you want.
OG: 1.073
FG: 1.014
IBU: 35.3
ABV: 7.8
SRM: 36

Grain Bill:
10 lb Maris Otter
2 lb Crystal 60L
8 oz Chocolate Malt
4 oz Flaked Wheat
All Grains were mashed at 154 F.

Kettle Sugar and Salt Additions:
0.88g Calcium Chloride Added because of my water profile
1 lb Dark Candi Sugar (the rocks) (Added early in the boil)
8 oz Golden Syrup (Added in last 15 minutes)
4 oz Molasses (Added in last 15 minutes)

Hops:
2.5 oz Fuggles at 60 minutes
1.33 oz Fuggles at 15 minutes

Belgian Abbey II Wyeast 1762

The flavor has a lot of plum, raisin and caramel. The hops are very subdued and the malt is very prominent.

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Old 04-26-2013, 10:57 AM   #12
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My russian imperial stout did awesome ove a few years. Partygile for the win

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Old 04-26-2013, 04:26 PM   #13
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This is turning into a good discussion. I read a bunch of the Revvy thread and I liked what he was doing. He made a large beer starting with a California Ale yeast until he got the gravity down fairly low, then when the alcohol climbed he moved to a belgian yeast. I like this concept because as much as I like Belgians, the yeasty funk is always in the forefront, so being able to "control" (obviously no real control, and I'm not saying I dont like the Belgian yeast flavor, but I like the concept of blending it more with the rest of the beer) sounds like a fun experiment for me.

Quote:
Honey does great work when aged for quite a while.
I also like the idea of this ^

Maybe not a true Braggort (unless throwing any honey in at all makes it a braggort, then maybe I'd be making one?) but if some of the fermentable sugar was in honey form that would be good. I've seen some burnt mead recipes. How about "burning" or toasting just a cup or two of honey to get a little caramel flavor.

**I like this concept:

A strong Saison with some strong herb/spice mix, "burnt" honey, and hearty hop profile that is left to age for a few years.**


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BJCP:
Description: A refreshing, medium to strong fruity/spicy ale with a distinctive yellow-orange color, highly carbonated, well hopped, and dry with a quenching acidity. A seasonal summer style produced in Wallonia, the French-speaking part of Belgium. Originally brewed at the end of the cool season to last through the warmer months before refrigeration was common. It had to be sturdy enough to last for months but not too strong to be quenching and refreshing in the summer. It is now brewed year-round in tiny, artisanal breweries whose buildings reflect their origins as farmhouses. Varying strength examples exist (table beers of about 5% strength, typical export beers of about 6.5%, and stronger versions of 8%+). Strong versions (6.5%-9.5%) and darker versions (copper to dark brown/black) should be entered as Belgian Specialty Ales (16E). Sweetness decreases and spice, hop and sour character increases with strength. Herb and spice additions often reflect the indigenous varieties available at the brewery. High carbonation and extreme attenuation (85-95%) helps bring out the many flavors and to increase the perception of a dry finish. All of these beers share somewhat higher levels of acidity than other Belgian styles while the optional sour flavor is often a variable house character of a particular brewery.

Ingredients: Pilsner malt dominates the grist though a portion of Vienna and/or Munich malt contributes color and complexity. Sometimes contains other grains such as wheat and spelt. Adjuncts such as sugar and honey can also serve to add complexity and thin the body. Hop bitterness and flavor may be more noticeable than in many other Belgian styles. A saison is sometimes dry-hopped. Noble hops, Styrian or East Kent Goldings are commonly used. A wide variety of herbs and spices are often used to add complexity and uniqueness in the stronger versions, but should always meld well with the yeast and hop character. Varying degrees of acidity and/or sourness can be created by the use of gypsum, acidulated malt, a sour mash or Lactobacillus. Hard water, common to most of Wallonia, can accentuate the bitterness and dry finish.
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Old 04-26-2013, 05:25 PM   #14
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I haven't totally fleshed out the details on this one, but here's my spring board...I've made a saison kit before, and I've made some of my own clone recipes from scratch, but this is my first saison, so any input on the matter MUCH appreciated. Later tonight I'll look in my "Designing Great Beers" book to see if i can make some adjustments to the grain percentages. Until then, have at it HBT.

I haven't input all the spices/herbs im planning on using but I'm thinking:
Grains of paradise (maybe, never used them)
White Peppercorns
Dried Orange peel, bitter
Then I want to add herbs: Sage, thyme, etc. (I was thinking lavender maybe, but I don't know a lot about how and what herbs to add)

Do I add these herbs at the end of the boil or do I secondary any of them? I can secondary them for a couple weeks and then remember, 2 years of aging, hopefully will mellow out those herbs.

I havent figured out my mash profile yet.

**Note, I was thinking of "burning"/toasting the honey to give it a caramel flavor. It will also add color to the beer so I changed the SRM from 1 to 20 on the honey (just a guess, not a scientific change)

---------------------------------------------
Recipe: Graduation Herb Saison TYPE: All Grain
Style: Saison
---RECIPE SPECIFICATIONS-----------------------------------------------
SRM: 6.8 SRM SRM RANGE: 5.0-14.0 SRM
IBU: 30.1 IBUs Tinseth IBU RANGE: 20.0-35.0 IBUs
OG: 1.068 SG OG RANGE: 1.048-1.065 SG
FG: 1.011 SG FG RANGE: 1.002-1.012 SG
BU:GU: 0.440 Calories: 151.6 kcal/12oz Est ABV: 7.6 %
EE%: 70.00 % Batch: 5.50 gal Boil: 7.44 gal BT: 60 Mins

Total Grain Weight: 14 lbs Total Hops: 3.50 oz oz.

Amt Name Type # %/IBU
9 lbs Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 64.3 %
2 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) Bel (3.0 SRM) Grain 2 14.3 %
1 lbs Munich Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 3 7.1 %



---BOIL PROCESS-----------------------------
Est Pre_Boil Gravity: 1.055 SG Est OG: 1.068 SG
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
1 lbs 8.0 oz Candi Sugar, Clear (0.5 SRM) Sugar 4 10.7 %
1.50 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] - Boil 60.0 Hop 5 22.6 IBUs
1.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] - Boil 15.0 Hop 6 7.5 IBUs
0.20 tsp Seeds of Paradise (Boil 5.0 mins) Spice 7 -
8.0 oz Honey [Boil for 1 min](20.0 SRM) Sugar 8 3.6 %


---Secondary----------------------------------------
1.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] - Dry Hop (WHOLE LEAF)

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Old 04-26-2013, 08:27 PM   #15
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If I were going to do something for aging that long for a celebration, I'd look at a lambic or some kind of sour beer. Something that will end up nice and dry, bubbly, champaign-like. Keep the recipe really simple, and let the bugs and age do the work.

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Old 04-27-2013, 01:55 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjohnson View Post
If I were going to do something for aging that long for a celebration, I'd look at a lambic or some kind of sour beer. Something that will end up nice and dry, bubbly, champaign-like. Keep the recipe really simple, and let the bugs and age do the work.
I've been interested in Lambics, but I know a lot of people that once they use certain equipment for a lambic, they'll only use it for lambics. Not sure if I want to make that much of a commitment. Can lambics age in bottles? I'd rather brew something that didn't have to sit in a primary/secondary for longer than a month or 2. Not sure if I'll be moving or not and I don't want to drive around with a secondary in my car.

But I'm here for an education, so educate me. I'm between a strong saison, a belgian strong, a braggart, and a lambic. What's the vote? and what's the recipe?
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Old 04-27-2013, 02:03 AM   #17
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See what you think about my saison recipe. http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f71/bbd-...furtif-155009/

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Old 04-27-2013, 02:38 AM   #18
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All those are awesome ideas. I will throw in a Bourbon Barrel Aged Cherry Quad. They can age years and get better and better. Boulevard BBQ is a favorite, maybe the best beer I've ever had.

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Old 04-27-2013, 02:47 AM   #19
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I did a regular mead in august for the start of law school. It was good so I drank all but six bottles. At the end of each semester I open one.

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Old 04-27-2013, 04:19 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChshreCat View Post
See what you think about my saison recipe. http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f71/bbd-...furtif-155009/
Looks real good ChshreCat! I'm keeping this in the forefront. I wouldn't want to mess with it too much, but I'm thinking of maybe using this as a base and adding a little here a little there. I just want something that starts a little extreme green but ages into something amazing, though that might be a little ambitious. How long did this last/what was the oldest one you tasted and how did it compare to when it was young?
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