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Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Recipes/Ingredients > AG Oktoberfest Help Needed
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Old 12-17-2008, 02:32 AM   #1
michael.berta
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Default AG Oktoberfest Help Needed

Hey there team,

I'm trying to put together an Oktoberfest (lager) for my first AG batch. It will be a 10 gallon batch. This basic recipe is from "How to Brew" by John Palmer. I doubled everything to get it from 5 gallons to 10:

Grain

14 lbs. of 2 Row Lager Malt
12 oz of Caramunich Malt
12 oz of Crystal 80 Malt
12 oz of Crystal 120 Malt
1 lb. of Munich Malt

Hops:
4 oz Liberty (4%) at 45 minutes
2 oz Liberty (4%) at 30 minutes
2 oz Liberty (4%) at 15 minutes

Yeast

Bavarian Lager

Mash Schedule - Multi-Rest Mash
Rest

104°F 20 mins
140°F 30 mins
158°F 30 mins

OG: 1.055 - 1.065
FG: 1.010 - 1.016
25 - 30 IBUs

OK. So since this is my first all grain batch I'd like to do single temperature instead of the three temperatures in this recipe. Will that work? Also, I don't think my homebrew shop has liberty hops. What is a good sub for this hop? I'd also appreciate general advise on the grain bill whether it is enough grain or not for 10 gallons.

I'd also like to see other people's all grain Oktoberfest lager recipes that have worked in the past.

I searched this site and several others and couldn't find much all grain Oktoberfest recipes.

Thanks,

Mike

p.s. I've brewed many extract lagers so please don't lecture me on lager temperature controls. Thanks!!

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Old 12-17-2008, 03:12 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michael.berta View Post
OK. So since this is my first all grain batch I'd like to do single temperature instead of the three temperatures in this recipe. Will that work? Also, I don't think my homebrew shop has liberty hops. What is a good sub for this hop? I'd also appreciate general advise on the grain bill whether it is enough grain or not for 10 gallons.
You will do fine with one temp. You'll have to gauge it on your expected attenuation with consideration to factors that affect attenuation outside mash temps (yeast health/pitch rate, aeration technique, etc.) If you normally get good attenuation I'd mash this in the mid 150s (154 - 156). If you get low to mediocre attenuation, I'd mash a little lower, like 151 or 152. Keep in mind that 104 temp in the recipe is an acid rest, so if your water pH is normal (upper 6's to low 7's) or higher, you might consider adding pH buffer in lieu of the acid rest. If it's in the low 6's or upper 5's, you shouldn't need it.

Any German noble hop(s) will do (and be a tad more authentic)... Hallertauer, Hersbrucker, Tettnang. Although, I'll say I don't really like his flavor and aroma hop quantites. Malt is the focus here and what little flavor you need can carry through from the bittering addition with maybe a little bit of flavoring addition. I don't see how aroma hops are necessary, but a touch would be pleasant.

As far as the grain amount goes, you'll need to put it into recipe software and estimate your efficiency. A good start, if you have no idea is 70%. This will tell the expected OG and you can see if it matches the recipe.

Good luck!
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Old 12-17-2008, 04:16 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michael.berta View Post
Hey there team,

I'm trying to put together an Oktoberfest (lager) for my first AG batch. It will be a 10 gallon batch. This basic recipe is from "How to Brew" by John Palmer. I doubled everything to get it from 5 gallons to 10:

Grain

14 lbs. of 2 Row Lager Malt
12 oz of Caramunich Malt
12 oz of Crystal 80 Malt
12 oz of Crystal 120 Malt
1 lb. of Munich Malt

Hops:
4 oz Liberty (4%) at 45 minutes
2 oz Liberty (4%) at 30 minutes
2 oz Liberty (4%) at 15 minutes

Yeast

Bavarian Lager

Mash Schedule - Multi-Rest Mash
Rest

104°F 20 mins
140°F 30 mins
158°F 30 mins

OG: 1.055 - 1.065
FG: 1.010 - 1.016
25 - 30 IBUs

OK. So since this is my first all grain batch I'd like to do single temperature instead of the three temperatures in this recipe. Will that work? Also, I don't think my homebrew shop has liberty hops. What is a good sub for this hop? I'd also appreciate general advise on the grain bill whether it is enough grain or not for 10 gallons.

I'd also like to see other people's all grain Oktoberfest lager recipes that have worked in the past.

I searched this site and several others and couldn't find much all grain Oktoberfest recipes.

Thanks,

Mike

p.s. I've brewed many extract lagers so please don't lecture me on lager temperature controls. Thanks!!
Single temp mash would be fine. If you want to do anything beyond that just do 15/20 minutes @ 130F and then go right to the main rest. Liberty is an American grown Hallertau family hop. Mt. Hood is another of that group that would work well. Any noble German hop like Spalt, Tettnager or a Hallertau would also be a great choice. That would be enough grain but I don't think you will get anywhere near those OG predictions, however. To hit OG 1.060 at a typical efficiency you would perhaps need 21-22 lbs. With 17.25 lbs you might come in at the mid 40s OG.

Now my personal opinion on the recipe itself. It looks like an outdated homebrew recipe to me. Oktoberfest beers should be based on Vienna and Munich malt. That recipe uses a plain base malt and tries to flavor it with lots of crystal malt. My suggestion is to use lots of Vienna and/or Munich malt and ditch all that crystal. The hop amounts are way too much for an Oktoberfest IMO. This beer should have IBUs in the mid 20s with very modest late hops if any at all. The hop schedule in that recipe is going to put you at close to 40 IBUs.

Here is a recipe suggestion:

10 lbs German Vienna malt
7 lbs German Munich II malt
4 lbs German Pilsner malt

3 oz Liberty or similar @ 60 minutes
1 oz Liberty or similar @ 20 minutes

Mash @ 150F for 60 minutes

That should land you in at about OG 1.055, IBUs of about 28 and nice malty flavor.

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Old 12-17-2008, 05:30 AM   #4
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Single temp mash would be fine. If you want to do anything beyond that just do 15/20 minutes @ 130F and then go right to the main rest. Liberty is an American grown Hallertau family hop. Mt. Hood is another of that group that would work well. Any noble German hop like Spalt, Tettnager or a Hallertau would also be a great choice. That would be enough grain but I don't think you will get anywhere near those OG predictions, however. To hit OG 1.060 at a typical efficiency you would perhaps need 21-22 lbs. With 17.25 lbs you might come in at the mid 40s OG.

Now my personal opinion on the recipe itself. It looks like an outdated homebrew recipe to me. Oktoberfest beers should be based on Vienna and Munich malt. That recipe uses a plain base malt and tries to flavor it with lots of crystal malt. My suggestion is to use lots of Vienna and/or Munich malt and ditch all that crystal. The hop amounts are way too much for an Oktoberfest IMO. This beer should have IBUs in the mid 20s with very modest late hops if any at all. The hop schedule in that recipe is going to put you at close to 40 IBUs.

Here is a recipe suggestion:

10 lbs German Vienna malt
7 lbs German Munich II malt
4 lbs German Pilsner malt

3 oz Liberty or similar @ 60 minutes
1 oz Liberty or similar @ 20 minutes

Mash @ 150F for 60 minutes

That should land you in at about OG 1.055, IBUs of about 28 and nice malty flavor.

word.....thanks....
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Old 12-17-2008, 05:55 AM   #5
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The suggested recipe is a very good idea. The only thing I think I could add is that you probably need to boil for 90 minutes. The malts in that recipe will give you a lot of DMS precursors and you probably want to let that boil off. DMS will make your beer taste like creamed corn. Don't change your hop schedule, just let the wort boil for 30 minutes before you start your 60 minute addition.

For what its worth, here is "my" 5 gallon recipe, straight out of Brewing Classic Styles. This batch of beer has gone faster than anything else I've ever made. Everyone who tried it went back for refills.

5.00 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 38.46 %
4.00 lb Munich Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 30.77 %
3.00 lb Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 23.08 %
1.00 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 7.69 %
1.50 oz Hallertauer [4.80 %] (90 min) Hops 25.1 IBU
0.50 oz Hallertauer [4.80 %] (5 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops -

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