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Old 12-14-2012, 12:40 PM   #11
ianmatth
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Bottled with cane sugar, trying to hit 2.3 volumes of CO2 based on this calculator: http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/recipator/rec...rbonation.html

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Old 12-24-2012, 07:51 AM   #12
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The beer turned out good. At 9+% ABV I actually think it could have used more hops because it didn't have as strong of a hop flavor as my last IPA which was around 6%. It also ended up having some dark beer characteristics that I think it got from the yeast cake.

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Old 12-24-2012, 04:05 PM   #13
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Yes. You could have used a lot more hops. I added up all of your additions and, excluding the dry hopping... it comes out to only 5 Oz total in the beer. That's certainly fine for, say, a 5.5% or 6% single IPA. But for this big of a beer, as you noted, 9% alcohol is a lot to stand up to, and I think your hops might have gotten lost en route to taste bud delivery.

(Just to be clear, since this is the Internet and you can't hear my tone of voice, I'm just talking matter-of-factly, that is all. I am *not* trying to imply you Did Things Wrong or am disgusted with you or anything like that. K? K. Moving on.)

What I would have done is...

- First off, 1/16oz additions need to go away. I can see blending 1/8oz - or better yet, 1/4 oz - of many hops together to get a complex flavor profile, but I think that unless you're doing Gallon, or 2-gallon batches, 1/16oz is probably too wee, too insignificant to really make a difference in flavor.

- Second, let's look at the total amount of each hop. Excluding the dry hopping... You used 0.625oz Warrior, 0.625oz Zythos, 0.5 oz Sorachi, 0.25oz Falconer, 0.25oz Chinook, 0.6875oz Simcoe, 0.6875oz Citra, 0.6875oz Amarillo, and 0.6875oz Nugget. That's a lot of oddball numbers, but you didn't use over a single ounce of any one hop. At those levels (and in this strong of a beer), this tells me no single hop variety is going to "cut through" the big malty background and shine.

- So... how to do it differently?? I'm going to assume, for a moment, that you had a full 1.0oz package of each hop in inventory to work with. So, I came up with this.
60 Minutes: 1/2oz Warrior, 1/2oz Zythos = 1.00oz
30 Minutes: Eliminate entirely
20 Minutes: 1/2oz Zythos, 1/4oz Warrior, 1/4oz Nugget = 1.00oz
15 Minutes: 1/4oz each (Chinook, Sorachi Ace, Falconer, Nugget) = 1.00oz
10 Minutes: 1/2oz Nugget, 1/4oz each (Falconer, Chinook, Simcoe, Citra, Amarillo) = 1.75oz
5 Minutes: 1/4oz each (Sorachi Ace, Falconer, Chinook, Simcoe, Citra, Amarillo, Centennial, Cascade) = 2.00oz
2 Minutes: 1/2oz Sorachi Ace, 1/4oz each (Chinook, Falconer, Simcoe, Citra, Amarillo, Centennial, Cascade) = 2.00oz
Dry Hop: 0.5oz each (Centennial, Cascade) plus 0.25oz each (Simcoe, Citra, Amarillo) = 1.75oz
Total = 10.75oz Hops for 9% ABV beer

Okay, now let's take a look at that hop schedule in an actual recipe, to see how software thinks our IBU will look. Now, things get hairy here because I could not get your numbers to line up right, using 9# LME, I get an OG way down in the 1.067 range. I basically faked the recipe to get it to come out to 1.080 as you measured - I used a batch size of 5.0 gal and then added 11# of Pilsen LME to get OG 1.079 / FG 1.020 which is close to what you reported - although your FG finished a lot drier. So just take that into consideration when looking at IBU, These numbers are definitely approximate, since you saw strange gravity readings and diluted accordingly. (Of course, for the sake of trying to make math easier, I also ignored the dry-hopping in multiple secondary vessels.)

Now, I admit, I stopped editing the software-based recipe after adding all of the 5 minute additions, for two reasons: 1, it's very tedious to add that many different hops, and 2, it won't make a large impact on our calculated IBU.

But, with the above hop schedule (and ASSUMING 1.079 OG, and ASSUMING a full 5.0 gallons of boil volume), I come up with a lip-tingling 115 IBU.

In terms of hop usage (not IBU's though!) here is my hop addition "math" just for reference:

(I took away 0.25oz of Warrior after having taken this screenshot, it should be total of 0.75oz Warrior and 10.75 oz total hops.)

All in all, though, it sounds like you created a pretty tasty Double IPA and with a little caressing of your hop bill & timing, I think it can only get better from here!

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Old 12-25-2012, 03:52 AM   #14
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As far as the 1/16 oz additions, if you add everything up, you'll see that I was using a 1/2 oz total for Falconers Flight and Chinook, but I should have used more Simcoe, Citra, Amarillo, and Nugget. I used 7 oz of hops on my last batch, but used 2 oz of those hops in the last 2 minutes, probably should have done the same this time. I did an original calculation with 4 gallons for this batch and ended up getting 110 IBU with the 5 oz of hops I used, so I thought that was enough. I just re-calculated it, changing the final batch size to 5 gallons (since I added another gallon of water later to knock it down to 1.080) calculates to 74 IBU, definitely not enough for major hop flavor in a 9+% IPA. so I think that was what it was. I didn't expect to have to add that gallon of water at the end. I'm not sure how I ended up with an OG of 1.105 with a 4 gallon boil of 9 lbs. LME, unless the volume went down to 3.2 gallons. However adding the 2.25 starter only brought it down to 1.100, and there was only about 0.7 lbs of LME in the starter, so it really doesn't make sense. To have 4 gallons at 1.100 drop to 1.080 at 5 gallons, I should have had 10.8 lbs of LME. If I had 9.7 lbs of LME, to drop from 1.100 to 1.080, I should have gone from 3.6 to 4.5 gallons, which would have meant I should have had 3 gallons that measured 1.111 OG before adding the starter. While I don't think I needed 10 oz of hops (way too much trub), I definitely needed more than 5 oz since I had to add that extra gallon of water. Until I did that calculation I didn't realize how much a partial boil cuts IBUs.

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Old 12-25-2012, 01:13 PM   #15
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AHHHH Thank you for clarifying. I did not realize it was supposed to be 4 gallons and got adjusted to 5 due to the gravity issues - I thought you had intended for 5 gal all along. And as such, my hop schedule assumed 5 gal post-boil, 6-ish-whatever gal pre-boil.

My bad, your original recipe makes more sense now. I do think that in general, it needed more late hops, especially not coming from Nugget or Warrior or Zythos, but from all of the aroma/flavor hops you listed earlier.
In fact, of the three bittering varieties, I would be tempted to lose one entirely - just Nugget & Warrior, or just Warrior & Zythos, etc. - in order to give you more room for late-addition hops from 15 minutes onward. But it is true that I never drop into measuring 1/16oz of hops, I pretty much stick to 1/4oz as a minimum addition for any single variety. (Okay, maybe 1/8oz of each variety if I want to make a micro-managed hop schedule to simulate continuous hopping.)

And it is very true, partial boil vs. full boil can change the hop utilization drastically.
I think that, as you also mentioned, whatever caused you to experience weird gravity/volume issues and thus caused you to correct the beer via dilution, is the culprit behind "throwing off" the hop profile you expected to get from this beer.

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