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Old 06-11-2013, 02:34 PM   #331
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Originally Posted by BridgewaterBrewer View Post
Yes my understanding is that all these cooked sugars usually ferment out almost completely. Which begs the question of why bother to make these?
In a less flavorful beer like a Belgian ale, they come through but somewhat subdued.
What Belgian beers are you drinking that you consider "less flavorful"? I think many Belgians are some of the most flavorful and complex beers I've ever tasted. The candi syrup is supposed to dry out the beer while contributing to the flavor profile. Of course most of the subtle flavors contributed by the syrup will be overpowered and lost in a porter or a stout...too much roast malt flavors there already. I bet it added a layer of complexity that would be missing if you brewed the same recipe without it though.


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Old 06-12-2013, 12:25 PM   #332
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maybe they're right - the way they utilized it resulted in a brew with no noticeable contribution from the sugar other than abv, body.

I've always noticed it however in the bigger Belgians and the amber to dark saisons that aren't overloaded with specialty malts

Anytime I've gone 10-20% candi sugar in the bill, I've at least gotten from a hint to a nice rounded flavor - combining a sugar mix that is mostly D-180, slightly smaller amount of D-90, then the rest of D-45 creates a REALLY nice complex profile for BDSs. D-45 in Saisons is a perfect replacement for Special B / Caramunich II combo. The Simplicity equivalent has only been slightly noticeable and I've gotten better results with the 260-275 range - a more noticeable citrus and light vanilla flavor than the D product



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Old 07-06-2013, 01:50 AM   #333
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The more fermentable the sugar the less flavor/mouthfeel that will be left behind. So if you put a lot in a Belgian ale you can taste it but to me it's a bit subtle. My point was that you can't detect it in a porter or stout the way that you could detect say maltose.

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Old 07-09-2013, 03:20 AM   #334
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So I recently stumbled across recipes for traditional English ales on the blog of brewing historian Ron Pattinson (http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/) and am fascinated by this stuff. One thing that is pretty ubiquitous in these recipes is invert sugar. Appears there were countless manufacturers at the time, but basically four grades that were commonly used:
- Number 1 (30 EBC, or ~15 Lovibond)
- Number 2 (70 EBC, or ~35 Lovibond)
- Number 3 (130 EBC, or ~65 Lovibond)
- Number 4 (500 EBC, or ~255 Lovibond)

The milds, brown ales, double brown ales, etc were colored with "caramel", which although variable, was likely in the ballpark of 1400 Lovibond.

So, if I understand the chemistry and process correctly, the color of the invert sugar was dependent upon the degree of caramelization and not maillard reaction since I have not come across anything describing the use of an amino source during inversion.

I'm a bit confused about the "caramel" called for in these recipes for color. Anyone know how caramel colorant is produced? I'm guessing in a manner similar to the OP, with an amino source and significant maillard reaction in addition to caramelization in order to get enough color without scorching. So, would a 1400 Lov caramel colorant basically be "sugar #5" in the OP?

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Old 07-31-2013, 11:17 AM   #335
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Look up caramel color on Wikipedia. That will give you some leads.

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Old 08-01-2013, 09:30 PM   #336
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Default Date Sugar

My first post!

I have a "dark strong" Belgian ale finishing fermentation (5 gal). The recipe has 3 lbs of D-180 (SRM=40). The point of my post is that the D-180 packaging indicates it has date sugar as an ingredient. How might date sugar factor into the target flavor profiles alluded to here and how might the home preparation process be modified to accommodate the use of it (and does it need to)? BTW, it is not clear if all the Candi Syrup, Inc. products have date sugar or just this one.

Thanks in advance

(I just found a reference to date sugar in this thread but nothing that addresses my Qs. It seems to me that it might be best to add the date sugar after taking the beet sugar syrup to 240F soft ball stage at least once and then bringing up the temp again. Probably will take some trial and error as I presume date sugar has a different scorch point due to impurities - any suggestions?)

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Old 09-11-2013, 06:02 PM   #337
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinfriend View Post
My first post!

I have a "dark strong" Belgian ale finishing fermentation (5 gal). The recipe has 3 lbs of D-180 (SRM=40). The point of my post is that the D-180 packaging indicates it has date sugar as an ingredient. How might date sugar factor into the target flavor profiles alluded to here and how might the home preparation process be modified to accommodate the use of it (and does it need to)? BTW, it is not clear if all the Candi Syrup, Inc. products have date sugar or just this one.

Thanks in advance

(I just found a reference to date sugar in this thread but nothing that addresses my Qs. It seems to me that it might be best to add the date sugar after taking the beet sugar syrup to 240F soft ball stage at least once and then bringing up the temp again. Probably will take some trial and error as I presume date sugar has a different scorch point due to impurities - any suggestions?)
I can attest that I've utilized straight up date sugar alone from the very beginning, all the way to 300+ 4 times over (its a pain but if you are diligent with water it can work) with this DAP method and while it is probably a little too much burnt sugar, deep cocoa for my liking (seemed more intense than 180) it did contribute to a friend's porter very nicely, especially with coffee malt. Anyways - if you do a 1 part cane, 1 part dark brown, 1 part turbinado, 1 part date sugar up to 290 stage, cool down, and then back up to 270 (not necessary) you will get a very complex sugar that will go greatly with anything dark. I call it my D-75 - a nice inbetween that is great for Saisons in place of a caramel malt, or in conjunction with special b - especially if you like the more orange type saisons and/or malt-focused biere de gardes
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Old 09-11-2013, 06:13 PM   #338
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saving this for later

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Old 09-28-2013, 10:14 PM   #339
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I did a search within this thread and only found one post about using lactose sugar. Im curious if i should add some to this, or if i would be better off just adding the lactose sugar at bottling like i usually do and making the candi sugar as stated in the first post?

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Old 09-29-2013, 03:59 AM   #340
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I would keep the lactose out of this. Add lactose to your recipe separately if you would like any unfermentable sugars in your brew. This candi sugar will no doubt get consumed by the yeasties.



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