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Old 04-17-2013, 11:03 PM   #321
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i used lemon and lime juice, which made a sugar I used in a "Belgian 2.5" a little sweeter, but it still just had a caramelized vanilla flavor - it tasted very similar at clear, blonde, and amber stage - only when it got super dark did I get a "toasty caramel" flavor - not as complex - just varying levels of vanilla and caramel intensity - you aren't going to get the light to dark fruits as a result of the DAP reaction. Some have said DAP isn't enough and have used other vitamins and minerals, Potassium stands out as an example - but, I couldn't speak to the use of any of those ideas out there as DAP alone, and especially in combination with the unrefined and especially date sugar, got me as close as you can probably get to the D products without buying them.

I use strictly DAP now, and like I said - any unrefined sugars you can use will give you a more complex flavor - especially the date sugar IMO

just add the sugar, water, and DAP together in the pot, put on medium heat, and use your candy thermometer and eye for the flavor and color profile you want.

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Old 04-26-2013, 04:47 PM   #322
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Sugar #4 worked well for me but the gas let of during boiling are terrible. Flavor was good and tasted great after adding to a Belgian brune.



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Old 04-27-2013, 03:52 PM   #323
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looks like a lot of fun - the smell is terrible and will clean out your sinuses and stay with you if you don't step away for a second or two - I try to have someone else with me that will give me a 2 minute break. The overhead fan and ventilation was a must for me - phew!

Will be interested to hear about your brune and what/if you notice anything from your sugar creation

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Old 05-14-2013, 04:46 PM   #324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlaney
I've had success with the following that closely approximates Belgian D-2 that I bought at MLHBS. It is a slight modification of sugar #5 with an inversion step based on another web page (sorry I don't have the link):

2 lbs sugar + 1 cup water stir to mix
Heat to boiling, add 1 tsp lemon juice and boil 30 min at 212-220 f by adding water occasionally to control temp.
Add 1 tsp sodium bicarbonate and 3 tsp DAP, do not stir
Over low heat allow to reach 290 then carefully add 1 cup water. Allow to reach 270 then add 1 cup water. Take off heat when it reaches 230

The recipe called for potassium bicarbonate but I didn't have any. The small amount of sodium in the baking soda does not appear to have resulted in a strange flavor. Hopefully it will not affect the beer.

The taste is pretty close to D-2 with only a slight hint of added bitterness as an aftertaste. I got impatient and put the heat up to about half intensity which may have contributed to this difference.
Did anyone ever experiment using potassium bicarbonate or lime to raise the PH. Would they result in different flavors
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Old 05-16-2013, 02:50 PM   #325
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lemon / lime juice in my experience will give you a sweeter product in the lighter stages, but, has given me more bitterness the darker I go

I might consider just using the lemon or lime during the cool down liquid stage or a minute or two before it hits the final soft or hard crack temp

really though - the DAP with unrefined is just about spot on IMO. Getting your hands on, or making your own Date sugar will put you over the top in the fruits taste and aroma category - it really made a difference in my recent Dark Strong. Chewy, rummy dates taste and aroma from the sugar.

If you use El Dorado hops along with the DAP sugar using a portion of date sugar - you'll be happy - I promise!

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Old 05-19-2013, 02:24 AM   #326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CZs View Post
lemon / lime juice in my experience will give you a sweeter product in the lighter stages, but, has given me more bitterness the darker I go

I might consider just using the lemon or lime during the cool down liquid stage or a minute or two before it hits the final soft or hard crack temp

really though - the DAP with unrefined is just about spot on IMO. Getting your hands on, or making your own Date sugar will put you over the top in the fruits taste and aroma category - it really made a difference in my recent Dark Strong. Chewy, rummy dates taste and aroma from the sugar.

If you use El Dorado hops along with the DAP sugar using a portion of date sugar - you'll be happy - I promise!
I ment using Calcium hydroxide not lime juice. I had good luck using it. I just made a Dark Strong with some of the sugar I put date sugar in it as well. It is fermenting in my open fermenter and smells awesome!!
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Old 06-09-2013, 02:31 PM   #327
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Just thought I'd add a couple more data points. Several people raised concerns about the fermentability of these syrups compared to Candi. I decided to run a few test batches before I committed to 5 gallons.

My test:
Sugar #1 = table sugar + DAP taken to 270
Sugar #2 = raw sugar + DAP take to 290, cooled and back to 290

Temps were raised very slowly and controlled with additional TSP of water while it boiled. Final temps were held for just a few seconds. Total time was 30 minutes for Sugar#1 and 60 minutes for Sugar#2

Taste/smell/color

Sugar#1 - quite sweet and mild caramel. Some vanilla and floral notes. Almost honeylike. Somewhere between straw and a light amber.
Sugar#2 - dark caramels, plum and raisin, dark fruit. No roastiness. Very tasty. Opaque black with some red tones on the edges.

I took each sugar and diluted with hot water to a 1.040 solution. (about 3 tsp for 1 Cup water). Each was put in a mason jar and cooled to 70 degrees. I pitched a bit of american ale yeast in both - no idea at dosage rates. Both were fermented at ambient temps of 75 for 1 week.

Results
Sugar #1 finished at 1.002 (temp corrected) = 95% attenuation
Sugar #2 finished at 1.003 (temp corrected) = 93% attenuation

Frankly, I'm pretty shocked by that, but numbers don't lie.

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Old 06-11-2013, 12:20 PM   #328
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Yes my understanding is that all these cooked sugars usually ferment out almost completely. Which begs the question of why bother to make these?
In a less flavorful beer like a Belgian ale, they come through but somewhat subdued. I made the 290 sugar syrup with DAP but used it in a porter so it's undetectable. But What brought me to this thread was a basic brewing podcast in which they compared various sugar syrups and there was one that barely fermented at all and the beer was very popular. That's what I'm looking for.

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Old 06-11-2013, 01:13 PM   #329
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Great, thread! I admit I haven't made it through every page, but could someone explain why I need to use a candy thermometer rather than a regular digital cooking thermometer (I use a Taylor 1470 digital cooking thermometer)?

http://www.amazon.com/Taylor-1470-Digital-Cooking-Thermometer/dp/B00004XSC5/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1370956315&sr=8-3&keywords=taylor+digital+thermometer

Also, would LD Carlson's Yeast Nutrient work as DAP? It says "Food grade Urea and diammonium phosphate"?:

http://www.midwestsupplies.com/yeast-nutrient.html

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Old 06-11-2013, 01:47 PM   #330
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"Yes my understanding is that all these cooked sugars usually ferment out almost completely. Which begs the question of why bother to make these? "

I think you are missing the point of belgian candi sugar then. It is supposed to ferment almost completely AND give flavor.

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