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Old 02-26-2010, 04:02 PM   #11
phasedweasel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by permo View Post
I think if a guy just got a good schartzbier recipe and used pacman or notty on a cool fermentation you would get close.
I disagree, I think there's a lot of crystal malts in there, especially 120 and maybe 80, and that's supported by the response from New Belgium ("lots of caramel malts and carapils"). I also think you get a bit of yeast character, which again is supported by New Belgium's response that they use a lager yeast at warmer temps.
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Old 02-26-2010, 06:14 PM   #12
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Wow, lots of replies...

To start, I did read that TBN thread, and about 11-teen others on the subject.

I also found a thread (I'll find again if I can today andpost here) detailing an email from the brew guy at NB stating (verbatim) "I can't just give you the recipe, but I can give you the ingredients;

1554: 5.5%
Hops and Spices: Magnum
Malts: Pale, Carapils, Black, Munich, Chocolate "

So that's where I started, then I found several recipes that had various amounts of these and others, and went from there.
Many mentioned Grains of Paradise, and I have that coming but forgot to add it to the Beersmith recipe. I got 2 grams..

I don't see the need to add a crystal, or a black or change a whole bunch of other things like the yeast.. Pacman maybe what it needs, but I don't know that yet.
I know the head brewer says they use lager yeast at higher temps. To me, that's not the same thing as using ale yeast at lower temps...
I've got a WPL830 (I think, the german lager variety) coming for it.

I'll drop back the chocolate as I was think it was a bit much as well. But then it's test batch #1. Plus I'll get the benefit of learning to wash the yeast for the next 8 test batches..

One important question, relating to the "higher temps"... What should I consider higher temps for the lager yeast?

I can get down to 62-66 in the basemant, or keep it upstairs and get 65-75 depending, or put it in the garage and get 52-58....

Many other attempts I read had guys shooting for the 60's, but not many of them ever came back with an update..
I'm leaning toward the 62-66 range myself...

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Old 02-26-2010, 06:38 PM   #13
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Regarding that lager yeast and temps; allegedly the WLP830 strain is the Weihenstephan 34/70 strain and that is allegedly Wyeast #2124. On the Wyeast site it says the following regarding that yeast (note the pseudo-ale thing and the low sulphur, very important):

Quote:
A Carlsberg type yeast and most widely used lager strain in the world. Produces a distinct malty profile with some ester character and a crisp finish. Will ferment in the 45-55°F range for various beer styles. Benefits from diacetyl rest at 58°F (14°C) for 24 hours after fermentation is complete. Also used for pseudo-ale production with fermentations at 65-72°F, (18-22°C) which eliminates sulfur production.
I'm curious how the diacetyl would be at those temps and how one would do a D-rest since you're already at D-rest temps.
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Old 02-26-2010, 06:44 PM   #14
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Good post... Thanks for that info..

As to the question, I have no idea.. hahaha..

I may end up with some undrinkable crap..

<on edit>

I don't know about the rest (this is my first go round with a recipe.) but here's a quote from the TBN post..

"We use our lager yeast in 1554, the same one that we use for Blue Paddle. The main difference is in a 1554 ferment the temperature is significantly warmer. This reduces the sulphur compound formation and increases the aroma ester production slightly to give it a Belgian-y flavor without the overpowering ester character that our Abbey ale yeast produces.
The real secret to 1554 is this: we don't use any kind of flavor or aroma hop in 1554, only bittering hops. We do add a spice at the end of boil, however."

So it seems the sulfur side is panning out good...

More D-rest research is in my future...

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Last edited by Ridemywideglide; 02-26-2010 at 06:49 PM.
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Old 02-26-2010, 08:20 PM   #15
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Here's an email I just received from Wyeast:


Brad,

Honestly, 2124 usually doesn't produce beers with diacetyl problems. If
using 2124 at 60, perform a d-rest at 60 for 2-3 days. This is really
only necessary of you are kidding the beer and immediately cooling right
after terminal gravity is reached. If you are bottle conditioning, the
d-rest can happen in the bottle.

Please let me know if you have other questions.


Jess Caudill
Brewer/Microbiologist
Wyeast Laboratories

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Old 09-05-2011, 07:40 PM   #16
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After reading this and several other threads, here is what I came up with and brewed yesterday. I'll let you know how mine turns out in about 4 weeks.


Type: All Grain
Date: 9/21/2011
Batch Size: 6.00 gal
Brewer: Ben Bradford
Boil Size: 7.07 gal Asst Brewer: Me
Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: 6 Gallon Equipment
Taste Rating(out of 50): 35.0 Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00
Taste Notes:

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU
6 lbs 3.7 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) Bel (3.0 SRM) Grain 48.41 %
2 lbs 1.0 oz Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 16.04 %
2 lbs 0.5 oz Caramel Malt - 10L (Briess) (10.0 SRM) Grain 15.77 %
2 lbs 0.5 oz Carapils (Briess) (1.5 SRM) Grain 15.77 %
4.1 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 2.01 %
4.1 oz Carafa III (525.0 SRM) Grain 1.99 %
0.53 oz Magnum [15.20 %] (60 min) Hops 23.6 IBU
0.25 oz Black Pepper (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
0.25 oz Coriander Seed (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
1.00 tbsp PH 5.2 Stabilizer (Mash 60.0 min) Misc
1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs Bohemian Lager (Wyeast Labs #2124) Yeast-Lager



Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.054 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 1.054 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.015 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.012 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.03 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 5.48 %
Bitterness: 23.6 IBU Calories: 240 cal/pint
Est Color: 21.1 SRM Color: Color


Mash Profile

Mash Name: Single Infusion, Full Body Total Grain Weight: 12.87 lb
Sparge Water: 1.73 gal Grain Temperature: 72.0 F
Sparge Temperature: 168.0 F TunTemperature: 72.0 F
Adjust Temp for Equipment: TRUE Mash PH: 5.4 PH

Single Infusion, Full Body Step Time Name Description Step Temp
45 min Mash In Add 3.99 gal of water at 167.0 F 154.0 F
10 min Mash Out Add 2.89 gal of water at 190.4 F 168.0 F



Mash Notes: Simple single infusion mash for use with most modern well modified grains (about 95% of the time).

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Old 09-05-2011, 08:20 PM   #17
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Can't wait to hear how this one comes out! I've been watching these 1554 threads for some time now....

Thanks for jumping in there to take a crack at it, brave soul!

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Old 09-06-2011, 12:29 AM   #18
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I'm not on my computer, but I believe that there is an official New Belgium recipe that was in BYO. I have it on my laptop.

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Old 11-24-2011, 04:47 AM   #19
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benbradford- how did your 1554 clone turn out? What did you think of the rather large percentage of crystal and cara malts? I'm thinking of brewing up something very close to your recipe.
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Old 04-11-2012, 03:08 AM   #20
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I'd also like to know how it turned out! Wake up!

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