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-   -   1554 Clone attempt.. (http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/1554-clone-attempt-165173/)

Ridemywideglide 02-26-2010 04:13 AM

1554 Clone attempt..
 
I dug through several threads and compiled a recipe that I think I'll start with.

Problem I'v run into is the recipe calls out Weyermann Munich II, and gives it 8.5 srm..
I can't find this anywhere...
I can only find Weyermann CaraMunich II, and it's 40-50srm..

I went ahead and got the caramunich II, but I also grabbed an equal amount of thier light munich, as it's 8-9, thinking substitution...
Am I heading the right direction here or no...??

The recipe I followed gives a color of 35, and with the CaraMunich II, brewmasters recipator gave me 41.. not huge....

Here's what I ended up with..

BeerSmith Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: 1555
Brewer: Brad
Asst Brewer:
Style: Belgian Specialty Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.50 gal
Boil Size: 7.39 gal
Estimated OG: 1.055 SG
Estimated Color: 40.3 SRM
Estimated IBU: 23.2 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
7 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 60.19 %
1 lbs 14.1 oz Caramunich II (Weyermann) (63.0 SRM) Grain 16.17 %
1 lbs 8.0 oz Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 12.90 %
12.0 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 6.45 %
8.0 oz De-Bittered Black (550.0 SRM) Grain 4.30 %
0.75 oz Magnum [14.00 %] (25 min) Hops 23.2 IBU


Mash Schedule: My Mash
Total Grain Weight: 11.63 lb
----------------------------
Mash 154* for 45, then mashout @ 168* for 10.

phasedweasel 02-26-2010 12:21 PM

From tasting impressions of the 1554 I'd reduce the chocolate malt, and add in a dark crystal along the lines of 120L. I'm not sure how much, but it definitely felt like it had the characteristic dark crystal flavors.

Caramunich is the not the same as Munich. If your recipe that you want to follow had a 8 SRM Munich, use the light Munich you bought. That said, I don't think that crystal malts are out of place here, I'd use a smaller quantity of the caramunich (pound or under) and some 120L (can't give you an estimate on quantity).

SpanishCastleAle 02-26-2010 12:37 PM

Did you read This TBN thread about it? One guy got a response e-mail from NB where they gave some good tips:
Quote:

interesting - I just got my response from the brewery - here it is: (from Matt G. - very cool person)

Hello Andy,

I am glad to hear you like 1554 so much. I'm not going to give you style guidelines because I think they're a bunch of hooey.

Malt: The basic idea is to brew a big beer, relatively high gravity with a lot of unfermentable content to keep the body high and the alcohol moderate. Some 2-row, but a lot of Munich, Caramel, and Carapils malts. Use chocolate and black malt extremely sparingly, a little bit goes a long way for color. If there were a black malt that had no bittering effect, that would probably be the one to use.

Hops: Bitterness is moderate to high, enough to offset all that extra sweetness. Water is kept soft to keep the bitterness quite mellow. There is no aroma hop in 1554. If anything, you could put in some kind of spice at flavor threshold.

Yeast: Lager yeast, ale temperatures. Particular strain doesn't matter, as long as it is a low sulfur producer.

Finishing wise, this beer is straightforward.

Hope this helps, good luck and happy brewing.
So it seems he is saying use only debittered Black or dehusked Carafa and only as much as is required to get the color. I agree with phasedweasel on everything said. There is a spice addition at the end but I don't know what it is and it's hardly detectable anyway imo (I've only had it a few times). I think Magnum is a good choice. Also looks like low sulphate water.

Oh yea, Weyermann Munich Type II (9ish *L) is about the same as most other maltster's Light Munich. Their Munich Type I (6ish *L) is lighter than most Light Munich malts. So you got the right stuff with that Lt. Munich.

syd138 02-26-2010 01:38 PM

Wow.. 12oz of Chocolate is way too much. I would definitely cut that down.

I'd imagine that you can get a lot of that color just from using straight Munich. Maybe a few oz of chocolate.. but thats it. Maybe some Special B?

phasedweasel 02-26-2010 02:00 PM

Reading that I'd say use a mix of crystals for sure: 10 (CaraPils), something intermediate, and maybe a blend of 80 and a 120 / Special B. Be careful not to overdo a combination of 80 and dark, it can be overpowering, but they are definite contributions.

permo 02-26-2010 02:11 PM

Also, I think Rogue Pacman yeast or notty would be a great yeast for this.....mash at 149-150 and ferment long and cool.

Basically just go find a good Schwartzbier recipe......black beer.

I think a pilsen base, with minimal crystal malt and enough black patent and chocolate to color it and you will be fine. It is supposed to be light bodied like a pilsener, just dark colored. I think the slight spice note comes from special B.

I wonder if some debittered dark malt would be nice?

I bet you would get close with this:

10# pilsen
4 oz special B
4 oz black patent
4 oz chocolate - or dehusked dark malt maybe?

SpanishCastleAle 02-26-2010 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by permo (Post 1910540)
Also, I think Rogue Pacman yeast or notty would be a great yeast for this.....mash at 149-150 and ferment long and cool.

Basically just go find a good Schwartzbier recipe......black beer.

I think a pilsen base, with minimal crystal malt and enough black patent and chocolate to color it and you will be fine. It is supposed to be light bodied like a pilsener, just dark colored. I think the slight spice note comes from special B.

I wonder if some debittered dark malt would be nice?

I bet you would get close with this:

10# pilsen
4 oz special B
4 oz black patent
4 oz chocolate - or dehusked dark malt maybe?

Read what the brewer said in that e-mail response I posted above. He says; "The basic idea is to brew a big beer, relatively high gravity with a lot of unfermentable content to keep the body high and the alcohol moderate."

In that thread linked there was another e-mail response where the brewer said no aroma/flavor hops but there is a late spice addition at the taste threshold.

Pacman and Notty are both good and clean but might tend to over-attenuate. I think they would work as long as you account for that.

permo 02-26-2010 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpanishCastleAle (Post 1910594)
Read what the brewer said in that e-mail response I posted above. He says; "The basic idea is to brew a big beer, relatively high gravity with a lot of unfermentable content to keep the body high and the alcohol moderate."

In that thread linked there was another e-mail response where the brewer said no aroma/flavor hops but there is a late spice addition at the taste threshold.

Pacman and Notty are both good and clean but might tend to over-attenuate. I think they would work as long as you account for that.

Wow I should have read that. So it really isn't a Schwartzbier then. So maybe mash high, ferment cool and hope for 1.015 to 1.018 FG? Maybe 1.060 OG? Something like that.

I have found that if I mash at 155 with a 1.060 brew, notty will take it too just below 1.020 if fermented cool.

I just don't get a lot of body when I have a glass of 1554, it seems light bodied and smoky tasting to me.

SpanishCastleAle 02-26-2010 03:05 PM

I've only had it a few times, once was on-tap at the brewery during the tour. I agree it doesn't really taste full-bodied, maybe medium-bodied. But keep in mind they use a lager yeast (same yeast as Blue Paddle) and ferment it warm (for lagers) so that's gonna make it attenuate more. Now that I just wrote that...I'm thinking you were spot-on with the Notty/Pacman recommendation...and fermented cool.

permo 02-26-2010 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpanishCastleAle (Post 1910710)
I've only had it a few times, once was on-tap at the brewery during the tour. I agree it doesn't really taste full-bodied, maybe medium-bodied. But keep in mind they use a lager yeast (same yeast as Blue Paddle) and ferment it warm (for lagers) so that's gonna make it attenuate more. Now that I just wrote that...I'm thinking you were spot-on with the Notty/Pacman recommendation...and fermented cool.

I think if a guy just got a good schartzbier recipe and used pacman or notty on a cool fermentation you would get close.

What do you suppose they use for spice addition?


I also have tinkered with the idea of making a "black kolsch" with WLP029. Same exact protocol as a standard kolsch, pilsen base with debittered black and little chocolate. This might also be something to consider if you like 1554.


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