What the heck to build? Electric or.....? - Page 4

**CodeRage** · 02-03-2010, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brocster

Pol-

So, would you recommend 3 4500w heating elements? 1 for the LT and 2 for the BK? I am going to assume at this point that I will have 3 15 gallon pots.

Also, while I understand that I need PID's and SSR's for controlling the heating elements, is there a "master" controller that would be able to coordinate timing to control the heating capabilitites as well as pumping capabilities?

And, are my PID's, OMRON E5CJ's, the type that I would need?

Thanks to everyone for putting up with my questions. This is all new to me.

Cheers!

Polls 9kw elements are in his RIMS unit, which is for hot water on demand. Trying to raise the volumetric flow of water x many degrees in one pass takes a butt load of BTUS.

With 3 vessels it sounds like you are setting up for a HERMs? (send the mash through a heat exchanger immersed in your heat source). At 15gal you wont be doing much more than 10 gal post boil batches.

With that said, one 4500 to 5500 in the BK (10 gal batches go with the 5500).
Your service is what is going to determine your Watt budget and the BK is going to take a good portion of it. So what ever you have left, put into the HLT. If you wont run both elements at the same time you can go big in the HLT. So, 2kW to 5.5Kw in the HLT would suffice. If you are on the smaller end of the spectrum you will need insulation and patience. Of course on the higher end temp changes will occur much faster. Since you wont boil in your HLT the high wattage isn't a must.

As for your PIDs, I need the last 4 parts of the model number to figure out what the outputs are.

**Brocster** · 02-03-2010, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CodeRage

Polls 9kw elements are in his RIMS unit, which is for hot water on demand. Trying to raise the volumetric flow of water x many degrees in one pass takes a butt load of BTUS.

With 3 vessels it sounds like you are setting up for a HERMs? (send the mash through a heat exchanger immersed in your heat source). At 15gal you wont be doing much more than 10 gal post boil batches.

With that said, one 4500 to 5500 in the BK (10 gal batches go with the 5500).
Your service is what is going to determine your Watt budget and the BK is going to take a good portion of it. So what ever you have left, put into the HLT. If you wont run both elements at the same time you can go big in the HLT. So, 2kW to 5.5Kw in the HLT would suffice. If you are on the smaller end of the spectrum you will need insulation and patience. Of course on the higher end temp changes will occur much faster. Since you wont boil in your HLT the high wattage isn't a must.

As for your PIDs, I need the last 4 parts of the model number to figure out what the outputs are.

Thank you very much for the reply!

I am still a little up in the air about the design, but I think I am leaning towards a 3 kettle HERMS design, but I have to admit it is more about my comfort with that type of system than the RIMS.

Here is a link to some information about the PID's I have.

http://datasheet.digchip.com/000/000-0-E5AJ-A2HB.pdf

I am really clueless as to the type of SSR's I would need, as well as the thermo couple. Since I would like to run two pumps, I would need some type of control for this as well I assume. I will do my best to research, but I really am starting from a low level of understanding.

As far as electric service, I will install what I need. I have a master electrician friend who would configure the service to my design. I would like the design to be efficient and robust, so I would rather put in good elements to have quicker responses and beef up the service versus downsizing the elements (if that makes sense).

Thanks!

**CodeRage** · 02-03-2010, 04:24 PM

Once you hit a 50A service things get real expensive when going up. So I would go with 5.5kW in the BK and 4.5kW in the HLT. It gives yah several amps to play with in the future.

FYI, I run a 5500W BK and 4500W RIMS on a 30A but I only run one element at a time. Doesn't slow my process down a bit.

Looking at those spec sheets again I realized that the control output on those PIDs are a separate module. You have to open up the PID and see what is installed. You need something of the E53-Q# variety.

As for temp probes, I avoid the thermocouples. They're good for quick response time but you are at the mercy of the circuit used to interface it which can really affect accuracy.

I would say a PT100 RTD or NTC thermistor, since this doesnt support thermistors, go with the pt100

sjlammer · 02-03-2010, 05:01 PM

Here is my setup.

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/bcs-based-electric-brewery-build-version-1-1-a-156729/

I'm still tinkering with it, adding pumps, etc. but the basic layout works great.

I have two 120 V 2000 Watt heating elements in the HLT. I did it this way so i could move the HLT if i needed to. This way if i wanted to brew somewhere else, all i need to do is have a 20 amp circuit to plug my HLT into, then use a propane burner with my old BK.

My Electric BK has a 5500 W camco ULWD Ripple element. It heats super fast.

PS the BCS rocks. I would include it if you can.

Cliff897 · 02-03-2010, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Pol

If you do go electric, dont skimp on the amperage of your supply circuit... Id personally go no less than 50A. This will allow you to run 9000W in your BK which will boil 13 gallons from sparge temps in 10 minutes.

Looks like I'm going to have to install another sub panel.

Which if you think about it might be a good idea having the panel in the same local as the power consumption.

**Brocster** · 02-12-2010, 02:40 AM

Well,

I think I am getting a little closer. I am looking at a three kettle HERMS system, 15 gallon pots each.

I feel pretty lucky from an automation standpoint as it seems like I will be able to get all the electrical automation components for free. Instead of PID's, I will be able to utilize an Allen/Bradley PLC to time and control i/o for two 5500w heaters, 3 pumps, temp sensors and analogue temp displays. I will also be able to use the PLC to control water additions and amounts for mash and sparge. I think I will use a modified SS enclosure on a swing arm. A friend who is helping said the whole thing can be fully automated, but I assume I will need to take care of vorlaufing and mash stirring.

I just need to design the platform and get a design in order to build the hoses and disconnects. Since it is electric, I will move this into the basement and wire and plumb all needed items, and have a friend take care of the needed electrical supply.

Question for anyone that has brewed indoors: How well does a high power venting system take care of the brewing odors? This is what my wife will surely ask!

I am looking forward to it!!! Should be able to start soon. As the design gets in place, I will begin posting pics/drawings and lessons learned.

Cheers!