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Brocster · 02-01-2010, 07:46 PM

Hi all,

I was hoping you could help me in narrowing down the type of brewery design and build I should be considering here shortly. I have read a ton of posts, searched this site and elsewhere for information, and have followed builds of other brewers here, but am still not sure the approach I want or should take.

Quick background and goals:

Currently brew 10 gallon AG batches
Use single mash infustion with a 15 gallon liquor tank and 15 gallon brew kettle
Use a 70 qt Coleman Extreme cooler for mash
Currently use propane
Love to experiment and refine beers and style, shooting for better and better quality in my approach
Have 6 beers on tap at all time
Grow own hops and harvest yeast. Not that this is important overall, but just want to show that I like the "full-control" approach.
Like large range of beers and styles

Also, I live in Minnesota, and usually brew in my garage and might make a brew room as an extension to the garage if I need. I can heat the garage so I do not have any need to have indoors. Although, that is an advantage of electric and may consider having the brew room inside if electric, indoors versus outdoors does not really matter. I do have fermentation temp control.

I am looking to begin building a nice "dream" system that will last into the forseeable future. I want something that will work awesome and be very funtional, and help me achieve a goal of producing high quality beers.

I work in the electrical/electrical automation industry and may have access to components and expertise in building control panels or other sub-systems.

I am open to Electric or Gas, and really am more concerned with capability of the system then using indoors. I can spend some decent money on the system, but I dont want to go over board on things that really don't add value. Other than some of the electrical control aspects, I can do everything myself, so I can and will be flexible in the layout and design.

So, given just that basic background, what type or types of systems should I be looking at? RIMS, HERMES, something else? Not even sure if I know the difference enough to really understand.

Another thing is electric versus gas - I am not sure which one makes the most sense given my goals.

I thank you ahead of time for those who reply. I really appreciate the direct knowledge and feedback that is given here, and, I am also looking for any advice on things I may not even be thinking of. I plan to start this project in the spring, so I want to start planning now.

Thanks!

Broc

MultumInParvo · 02-01-2010, 07:54 PM

Wow, this could be a pretty epic build...

What I personally think is the ultimate build is something along the lines of a single teer, HERMS, electric, automated, wood build for 10 gallon batches.

For ideas I would check out some of the builds already on the site. Scuba Steve(http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/scubas-herms-build-36267/), The Pol (WIP: http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/kill-watt-brewery-build-compilation-158348/), and Blackheart (http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/automated-herms-system-132119/) are some of the ones I like the look of the most.

There are all sorts of things out there. And I am sure some people who have actually built some rigs will chime in as well.

**Dog House Brew** · 02-01-2010, 08:12 PM

If I had it to do over again and had the service, I would go electric. I would also go larger than 70qt on the MLT or have a second small tun. I really like the idea of electric vs. gas especially for the reason of brewing indoors. Going RIMS is where I will go, but seeing I just finished abuild it will be some time before I change. My $.02

Boerderij_Kabouter · 02-01-2010, 09:02 PM

What is your budget. I think in your case a two step budget maybe makes sense... how much are you willing to spend to get up and running, and how much are you willing to spend once it is "complete"?

Without budget constraints, this is what I will build one day.

Total cost ~$3,200, cost to up and running ~$1,500.

In the mean time, this is what I am working with now.

Total bill of around a grand.

I have details and line item lists of these and other builds if you or anyone else are interested, PM me your email address and I will forward it to you.

**airbalancer** · 02-01-2010, 09:16 PM

I see no down side to going electric. Since your expertise lies in the field, go with what you know. RIMS or HERMS, it's all good.

I may be a bit bias

Brocster · 02-01-2010, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boerderij_Kabouter

What is your budget. I think in your case a two step budget maybe makes sense... how much are you willing to spend to get up and running, and how much are you willing to spend once it is "complete"?

Without budget constraints, this is what I will build one day.

Total cost ~$3,200, cost to up and running ~$1,500.

Total bill of around a grand.

I have details and line item lists of these and other builds if you or anyone else are interested, PM me your email address and I will forward it to you.

Thanks! I may need to get an accurate line item list for the build and appreciate the offer. I am interested in building a complete solution, something that will be in place for a long time, so I would lean towards getting the more expensive option(s).

I am trying to learn what makes a great system, what type of process is best and what type of equipment is then needed. Once I understand all of that, then I can plan and build.

Since this will be a "long-term" build, I want to make sure it is the right type for me because SWMBO will kick my butt if I come back with changes down the road!

LKHA · 02-02-2010, 12:41 AM

I just brewed with electric and it was a great I call mine a hybrid because when I get the stand done I plan on having it set up so I can slide a burner in and run propane and have all the pumps and sensors will run on 110 volt easy transport if needed.

The Pol · 02-02-2010, 12:45 AM

If you are going ground up... Id do electric. I am biased... I love electric, I used gas for years, electric is so much more efficient and clean.

If you do go electric, dont skimp on the amperage of your supply circuit... Id personally go no less than 50A. This will allow you to run 9000W in your BK which will boil 13 gallons from sparge temps in 10 minutes.

I love electric, it is clean, neat, easy to switch and control... ahhh, I love it.

I am building my second all electric rig and cant wait to plug it in!

I went with a small footprint Brutus 20 design this time...

If you can toss 3-4K into a system, you can have almost anything you imagine if you can DIY some things!

Brocster · 02-02-2010, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Pol

If you are going ground up... Id do electric. I am biased... I love electric, I used gas for years, electric is so much more efficient and clean.

If you do go electric, dont skimp on the amperage of your supply circuit... Id personally go no less than 50A. This will allow you to run 9000W in your BK which will boil 13 gallons from sparge temps in 10 minutes.

I love electric, it is clean, neat, easy to switch and control... ahhh, I love it.

I am building my second all electric rig and cant wait to plug it in!

I went with a small footprint Brutus 20 design this time...

If you can toss 3-4K into a system, you can have almost anything you imagine if you can DIY some things!

That is one SWEET looking system, and I have to admit that I would love a system that mixes functionallity and looks/design! Nice job, btw...

Where would you suggest I go to really understand all the design considerations and operation "needs"? I conceptually get it, but I want to really make sure I nail the design and planning. I would like to get a handle on my costs as well as the home wiring and venting that I might need to build in.

I see a lot of keggles as the basis for all tuns and kettles. Do you think there are pros/cons to commercial pots or Blichman products versus kegs? I have 15 gallon SS pots right now, so one option would be to add another pot to have three total, maybe upping the BK to 20 gallons.

Thanks to everyone for the comments!!!!

The Pol · 02-02-2010, 01:25 AM

Well, each rig is different, there are many electric designs here that are worth copying to tell you the truth. I cannot point to a single place where you can get a good rundown on all of the NEEDS that you will have, as that will be based on what YOU personally want.

Part of the beauty of my system IMHO is the BCS controller... instead of a control panel on the rig, I will have a wireless control on my netbook that will control all the automation and temp. settings. Needed? No. See what I mean?

Best thing to do is ask questions as you go, there is a lot of help here and you can get numerous ideas on how to tackle a singular challenge and then decide for yourself as to what you would prefer.

Keggles are nice, but they are HEAVY. Great if you are putting a burner under them, but not necessary if you are all electric. Blichmans arent necessary, but they are designed and built geometrically for brewing, specifically. They arent chilli pots. Also, when you consider the design attributes and add all the standard features on the Blichman, you are getting what you pay for, you are.

Again, it all depends on what YOU want and need. That is the awesome thing about building your own rig, others may not have wet dreams about it, all that matters is that you do

I had a certain vision, a certain goal, when building this rig that I am 90% finished with.

What is your vision, what is your goal? What do YOU value most? Who cares about what we think, what do you want? You tell us and we can help you get there

Do you want HERMS? RIMS? Three kettles? Two kettles? How long do you want to wait to heat the strike water? How long to boil? How are you going to chill? Closed system? IC chiller? Plate chiller? Are you going to mount your elements horzontal? Vertical? How long will they be? Will you always have enough fluid in that vessel to keep them 100% submerged? The list goes on....

The only thing I can offer is this... plan it, plan it for a month or so... ask questions, think about how the parts will work together (or not work) because you will have design ideas that will be failures. The more you can "dry run" it in your head, the fewer $$ you will waste on parts that will simply not work.

On my first system, I had A LOT of misc. parts left over... some ideas just didnt work. On this system I have ONE part that is spare... it was just a brain fart, so I have a $4 piece of SS sitting here that I will never use.