Gas is horrilby iniefecient in the delivery of energy to the pot and subsequently the wort. Electric is much more efficient particularly with the sticks actually in the liquid. If gas were more efficient it would be cheaper n many locations.
As far as the steam you cannot see: you cannot see steam.
With a gas burner you are heating the bottom of the kettle to a temp. that is greater than boiling...
This means that you have that whole surface area where you are creating bubbles, vapor....
With electric you are NOT heating the kettle at all, you are heating the medium, to boiling, not past boiling.
I would think you would see fewer "bubbles" as you dont have the surface area to create them that you do with gas. This is purely my conjecture, but there may be something to it.
As far as the boil, and boil off though, electric does the same things to the beer, it is all boiling.
Fossil fuels contain a great amount of energy, and if you COULD get them to your kettle, you would really have something.
The sun for example, has A LOT of heat potential, but due to the dynamics of the situation, you cannot get that potential into your kettle very efficiently, the same thing is affecting gas burners. They have a HUGE potential, you just arent getting that potential into the wort effectively.
This is why your garage is 90+ degrees in the dead of winter when you are boiling with gas, but 45 degrees when you are boiling with electric. With gas you are heating the planet, or your home... with electric you are only heating the wort.
How many BTUs does it take to heat a 20 x 20 x 9 foot cube from 45F to 95F? That is what a propane burner is wasting while it is heating my wort with gas.
That is 3600 cu.ft of air.
It takes .018 BTUs to heat ONE cubic foot ONE degree...
3600 cuft multiplied by 50F multiplied by .018 BTUs is...
3,240 BTUs
This is not taking into consideration the garage door being open to a degree for ventilation etc... or regular heat loss...
Last edited by willynilly; 03-21-2010 at 04:51 PM.
With a gas burner you are heating the bottom of the kettle to a temp. that is greater than boiling...
This means that you have that whole surface area where you are creating bubbles, vapor....
With electric you are NOT heating the kettle at all, you are heating the medium, to boiling, not past boiling.
I would think you would see fewer "bubbles" as you dont have the surface area to create them that you do with gas. This is purely my conjecture, but there may be something to it.
As far as the boil, and boil off though, electric does the same things to the beer, it is all boiling.
Yes, there it is. The whole reason this thread was placed. Gas is placing more heat energy into the liquid there by having a phase change from a liquid right to a gas state. Nothing to do with surface area. A gas burner should be able to be turned down to the point where the bottom of the kettle is acting like an electric element. If a simple rolling of the liquid at 212* is all that is needed, then the gas folks should be able too turn down the heat and save money on gas usage. Maybe I am thinking too much along the lines of a perpetual motion machine, but you get my drift. With out the extra BTU input the phase change doesn't happen.
Fossil fuels contain a great amount of energy, and if you COULD get them to your kettle, you would really have something.
The sun for example, has A LOT of heat potential, but due to the dynamics of the situation, you cannot get that potential into your kettle very efficiently, the same thing is affecting gas burners. They have a HUGE potential, you just arent getting that potential into the wort effectively.
This is why your garage is 90+ degrees in the dead of winter when you are boiling with gas, but 45 degrees when you are boiling with electric. With gas you are heating the planet, or your home... with electric you are only heating the wort.
How many BTUs does it take to heat a 20 x 20 x 9 foot cube from 45F to 95F? That is what a propane burner is wasting while it is heating my wort with gas.
That is 3600 cu.ft of air.
It takes .018 BTUs to heat ONE cubic foot ONE degree...
3600 cuft multiplied by 50F multiplied by .018 BTUs is...
3,240 BTUs
This is not taking into consideration the garage door being open to a degree for ventilation etc... or regular heat loss...
You also aren't taking into considering the huge cylinder of boiling liquid giving off heat as well. Not to mention the steam condensing back into a liquid state giving back off its energy. Just in the phase change, 1 lb of steam will throw back 970 BTUs. Multiply that by 8.35 (1 gallon of boil off) and you get a heat transfer of 8099.5 BTUs.
I dont know that it is placing MORE heat (BTUs) in there....
I say this because isnt boil off related to BTUs? Isnt heating time related to BTUs applied?
So if it is, why can a 4,000W element boil off the same as a MUCH larger gas burner? If in fact the gas burner is applying more heat to the wort, why isnt it boiling off more? This theory is all well and good if you are telling me that the gas burner boilers are boiling off say 2x as much, but they arent.
A 4000W element will boil off as much as any gas burner is doing during a regular boil.
This tells me that the BTU input is the same, 4000W is putting as many BTUs in as a gas burner that is running at... whatever it is running it. I boil off the same with electric, as I do with gas, telling me that the BTUs going to the wort, are equal.
Last edited by willynilly; 03-21-2010 at 05:02 PM.
You also aren't taking into considering the huge cylinder of boiling liquid giving off heat as well. Not to mention the steam condensing back into a liquid state giving back off its energy. Just in the phase change, 1 lb of steam will throw back 970 BTUs. Multiply that by 8.35 (1 gallon of boil off) and you get a heat transfer of 8099.5 BTUs.
I am taking that into consideration, but you have that whether you are using electric or gas... that should be equal. So it is not even a part of the equation.
Gas is horrilby iniefecient in the delivery of energy to the pot and subsequently the wort. Electric is much more efficient particularly with the sticks actually in the liquid. If gas were more efficient it would be cheaper n many locations.
As far as the steam you cannot see: you cannot see steam.
Unless I am mistaken, You cannot see superheated steam until it cools. There is a visual of water vapor condensing.
I dont know that it is placing MORE heat (BTUs) in there....
I say this because isnt boil off related to BTUs?
So if it is, why can a 4,000W element boil off the same as a MUCH larger gas burner? If in fact the gas burner is applying more heat to the wort, why isnt it boiling off more?
A 4000W element will boil off as much as any gas burner is doing during a regular boil.
This tells me that the BTU input is the same, 4000W is putting as many BTUs in as a gas burner that is running at... whatever it is running it. I boil off the same with electric, as I do with gas, telling me that the BTUs going to the wort, are equal.
Isn't boil off governed by surface area of the kettle being used? Amongst other things.
A 4,000W heating element is only delivering 13,648 BTU/hr. Even at a 50% loss to the direct fire method, a 170,000 BTU/hr burner will still get 85,000 BTUs/hr into the liquid.
I am taking that into consideration, but you have that whether you are using electric or gas... that should be equal. So it is not even a part of the equation.
I am sorry bro I gotta go and do some plumbing work for a friend. I'll be back later.
Please folks don't be shy, This is great so far. Please chime in.
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