I thought this was better up here then in the DIY where I hang out. The question is,
What constitutes a good boil?
I am wondering this due to another thread about BTUs. I am having a difficult time with the BTUs right now. I have learned that an additional 970 BTUs is needed to convert 1 lb of water into 1 lb of steam. With the electric revolution for boiling wort and my lack of knowledge on what an electric boils looks like. I decided to post this up in hopes it could be discussed and have a little clarification. I did a Google search and the first video of an electric boil that came up was this one. I know he has a thread here and also has this video up on here. My question is, is this a good enough boil?
The interesting thing to me on this is......There is no bubbles. Zero gas formation. There for not getting the extra 970 BTUs needed to convert the water/wort into steam. What is being seen is just the lost heat due to evap and not a change in state due to heat input. If this is to be considered a good enough boil, then the gas folks can turn things down a bit and save some coin.
in my opinion both are considered rolling boils. Gas formation is important for all beers but more important for others such as beers based in pislner malts due to DMS precursors found in the malt. Just because you can't see a ton of steam in the video doesnt mean its not there plus the second camera is at an odd angle.
My preboil for a 60 minute boil is almost 7 gallons and i boil down to 5.5 with plenty of steam and boiloff. If your boiling off less than a gallon i would say its not a strong enough boil based on my system and having never had issues with DMS or clarity
__________________ THIRSTY GOAT BREWING COMPANY
On Hiatus: Brewing in Munich....
in my opinion both are considered rolling boils. Gas formation is important for all beers but more important for others such as beers based in pislner malts due to DMS precursors found in the malt. Just because you can't see a ton of steam in the video doesnt mean its not there plus the second camera is at an odd angle.
My preboil for a 60 minute boil is almost 7 gallons and i boil down to 5.5 with plenty of steam and boiloff. If your boiling off less than a gallon i would say its not a strong enough boil based on my system and having never had issues with DMS or clarity
Thank you for chimming in.
That's what I am asking. Is the formation of the gas bubbles needed, or is it just a waste of energy?
If there is no need for the extra input to turn the water/wort into a gas, then I would bet the folks running gas as a heat source could see a big savings. If a simple upward pushing of the liquid is all that is needed then....
you need to have a decent amount of boiloff. You will DEFFINITLY know if you dont boil enough because you will get a slight rotten egg odor or taste to the beer from not boiling off the DMS. Its very distinguashable and if that happens just crank up the boil to increase the amound lost over an hour. Boil pilsner malt based beers for 90 minutes and you should be good. That first video looks great- im drooling
__________________ THIRSTY GOAT BREWING COMPANY
On Hiatus: Brewing in Munich....
you need to have a decent amount of boiloff. You will DEFFINITLY know if you dont boil enough because you will get a slight rotten egg odor or taste to the beer from not boiling off the DMS. Its very distinguashable and if that happens just crank up the boil to increase the amound lost over an hour. Boil pilsner malt based beers for 90 minutes and you should be good. That first video looks great- im drooling
I am not having an issue with my beer.
I am asking about energy usage and consumption. System efficiency. Electric boiling may happen fast but, I am wondering if the boil can be compared to a gas boil. An electric boil from what I have seen lacks the punch that is delivered by a burner. Maybe that extra punch isn't needed. If that extra punch isn't needed, then I would bet the direct fire folks could turn down the fire and save some money in gas usage.
Just going by the evap rate, there are several factors that come into play. Just like when one is looking at burner efficiency. I don't "think" that can be used as a comparison. Evap is evap, it will just about equal 8,000 BTUs/hr per gallon, coming from any source of heat.
I have found that in 8 gallons, when I am running 3700 BTUs that I get 1.3 gallons/hour boil off. If I want more, I increase the power output by cycle time, if I want less, I use less power. I am actually REALLY surprised to see that 7000W boil being so tame... my old kettle was much more vigorous looking than that. My new kettle is 2x the wattage of my first...
I use 9000W (30k BTU) to reach the boil, and then drop it to 3700W (12.6K BTU) to maintain a 1.3 gallon/hr boil off.
As for the "punch" of gas... I dont see where the punch comes in when electric is actually heating faster. It takes less time to reach a boil, and it only takes 3.7kW to boil off 1.3 gallons/hour... that is not much power at all, and most people are pimping BKs that are 5500-9000 watts.
How is electric more expensive? There have been threads here on HBT detailing the cost to use electric and it amounted to less than $2 to run the elements, pumps, everything, for a full brew session. (HLT, Pumps, BK)
Even if I ran my 9000W kettle at full blast (which would be a BAD idea) for 90 minutes to boil...
That is 13.5 kWh
I pay about $.1 per kWh (the national average is about $.14 or so)
That is $1.35... BUT I dont do that, 9000W is WAYYY too much.
I run 9kW for about 10 minutes
Then I run 4kW for 80 minutes
Totaling: 6.83kW
That is $.68 for a 90 minute boil with electric.
Where is all of this information coming from? That electric has less "punch" and that it is more expensive? Have you guys been using both?
Last edited by willynilly; 03-21-2010 at 04:29 PM.
What is boiling?
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