Ss Brewing Technologies Giveaway!

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Equipment/Sanitation > Tips on getting the most from your wort chiller.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 08-11-2012, 08:44 PM   #11
WharfRat
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 104
Liked 8 Times on 5 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerevisaphile

You are teaching this in a classroom?
It's really never too early to instill sound brewing sensibilities in our youths.
__________________
WharfRat is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-11-2012, 08:56 PM   #12
macleod319
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Lemon Grove, CA
Posts: 64
Liked 5 Times on 3 Posts
Likes Given: 7

Default

*Crazy scientific discussion ahead*

Alright, a little science from a power plant mechanic. Heat transfer in a condenser/cooler/wort chiller/etc. is boiled down to the basic following equation:

Q = mc(T2-T1)

Q=overall heat transfer in BTU/time

m= the mass flow rate of your cooling medium in vol/time
c= the specific heat transfer capability of your chilling surface (i.e. the copper surface of the wort chiller in this case)
T2= wort temp (higher temp substance)
T1= water temp (lower temp substance)

The only way to increase the heat transfer capability of your cooler (without structural modification) is to either:

INCREASE the mass flow rate of your cooling medium (not decrease) by turning the water flow up
or
INCREASE the difference in the two temperatures, by using a pre-chiller or some other way of getting colder water inside the chiller.

This can be proven with further explanation if required. Anyone that disputes this fact is temping the laws of thermodynamics, and I would like to hear an arguement against. Discuss.

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChillWill View Post
Stock market crashed? Hurricane warnings? Job sucks? Weather sucks? Friends busy?

None of that matters as I'm going to brew some beer with some loud rock music.
macleod319 is offline
sieglere Likes This 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-11-2012, 09:01 PM   #13
macleod319
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Lemon Grove, CA
Posts: 64
Liked 5 Times on 3 Posts
Likes Given: 7

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WharfRat View Post
One thing I believe has helped my cooling times a bit is modifying the coil of my chiller to fill my kettle. I staggered the coils, pulling the bottom one right, next one left, etc etc, so that there are fewer pockets in the wort that are far away from the copper. Made my chiller look pretty janky, but I think it trims off a few mins and thus saves some water
Perfect example of "structural mods", but one of the best ways to increase your cooling efficiency with an IC by maximizing the surface/stratification area you are cooling.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChillWill View Post
Stock market crashed? Hurricane warnings? Job sucks? Weather sucks? Friends busy?

None of that matters as I'm going to brew some beer with some loud rock music.
macleod319 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-11-2012, 09:33 PM   #14
dover157
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Moriarty, New Mexico
Posts: 92
Liked 2 Times on 2 Posts
Likes Given: 7

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by macleod319 View Post
*Crazy scientific discussion ahead*

Alright, a little science from a power plant mechanic. Heat transfer in a condenser/cooler/wort chiller/etc. is boiled down to the basic following equation:

Q = mc(T2-T1)

Q=overall heat transfer in BTU/time

m= the mass flow rate of your cooling medium in vol/time
c= the specific heat transfer capability of your chilling surface (i.e. the copper surface of the wort chiller in this case)
T2= wort temp (higher temp substance)
T1= water temp (lower temp substance)

The only way to increase the heat transfer capability of your cooler (without structural modification) is to either:

INCREASE the mass flow rate of your cooling medium (not decrease) by turning the water flow up
or
INCREASE the difference in the two temperatures, by using a pre-chiller or some other way of getting colder water inside the chiller.

This can be proven with further explanation if required. Anyone that disputes this fact is temping the laws of thermodynamics, and I would like to hear an arguement against. Discuss.

Ok not a thermodynamics expert and my only training with hydraulics is running Fire Pumpers, that said my little brain can see how running the water slower could prove to be more efficient. I’m thinking that the issue could be at the reduction going into the chiller. When running water full blast through a ¾” garden hose into a ½” or even a 3/8" fitting, you’re going to run into a friction problem. Water is incompressible so as it tries to squeeze more volume through a smaller line you will end up losing overall flow, and the friction at the reduction could add heat to the liquid. Also if there are any air bubbles anywhere in the system this will add cavitation, further reducing flow, generating more heat and in the long run leading to damage of the soft copper fittings. I believe this calls for some testing. Try running full bore through the chiller without being in hot wort and check the temp of the outflow over say 5 min, then dialing the flow back and running the temp checks again.
__________________
dover157 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-12-2012, 07:16 PM   #15
macleod319
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Lemon Grove, CA
Posts: 64
Liked 5 Times on 3 Posts
Likes Given: 7

Default

SNIP...

Quote:
Originally Posted by dover157 View Post
I believe this calls for some testing. Try running full bore through the chiller without being in hot wort and check the temp of the outflow over say 5 min, then dialing the flow back and running the temp checks again.
What you're suggesting is running liquid through the wort chiller in air and checking the discharge temp, right? (supposedly) Demonstrating friction losses due to heat?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChillWill View Post
Stock market crashed? Hurricane warnings? Job sucks? Weather sucks? Friends busy?

None of that matters as I'm going to brew some beer with some loud rock music.
macleod319 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-12-2012, 09:33 PM   #16
dover157
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Moriarty, New Mexico
Posts: 92
Liked 2 Times on 2 Posts
Likes Given: 7

Default

Macleod, that is exactly what I am thinking. My theory may be way off base but a test is the only way I can think of to prove or disprove it. If I had a chiller I would test it myself but that will have to wait. As for me when I get the setup I plan on running lower volume over longer time to save a little wetter, living in a desert and all it just seems like a wise choice.

__________________
dover157 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-12-2012, 09:42 PM   #17
Schumed
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Schumed's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Kansas City, Mo
Posts: 896
Liked 39 Times on 33 Posts
Likes Given: 15

Default

My tip is to ditch the immersion and spend the extra bucks on a Plate Chiller

I just recently did this after using an Immersion for a for years...can't believe I didn't do this from the get go considering a plate chiller is only a few more dollars more

__________________

"To alcohol! The cause of... and solution to... all of life's problems,"

Schumed is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-13-2012, 03:15 AM   #18
Keithww
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 121
Liked 8 Times on 5 Posts
Likes Given: 9

Default

Ok, in a different world. When I use to work on race engines we would put a reducer plate instead of the thermostat. You didn't want a thermostat because a closed thermostat caused back pressure on the water pump causing reduced available horsepower. You didn't want to just have full open because the coolant would flow to fast to pick up the heat and to release the heat though the radiator.

__________________
Keithww is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-15-2012, 01:41 PM   #19
macleod319
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Lemon Grove, CA
Posts: 64
Liked 5 Times on 3 Posts
Likes Given: 7

Default

Family's in town this week, but I'll get to this over the weekend. I'll do two tests, one dry, one in water. Anyone have anything specific they would like to see? I'll document in pics.

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChillWill View Post
Stock market crashed? Hurricane warnings? Job sucks? Weather sucks? Friends busy?

None of that matters as I'm going to brew some beer with some loud rock music.
macleod319 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-18-2012, 12:45 PM   #20
RipUSMC
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
RipUSMC's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: , Virginia
Posts: 130
Liked 8 Times on 8 Posts
Likes Given: 12

Default

Wouldn't this test be as simple as two experiments: 1). Running water fast 2). Running water slowly; in two separate trials with the wort and water temperatures the same (different from one another but the same for each experiment). Then measure the time it takes to disburse heat from boiling to 70deg in both. Seems you could run the test twice or three times to be more scientific, but that would answer the question. Might save us some reading of scientific theorems. My money is still with the folks teaching brew science to a classroom of eager students. Enroll me please...

__________________

"I have just returned from visiting the Marines at the front, and there is not a finer fighting organization in the world!" -General of the Armies Douglas MacArthur

Kegged: Prussian Pickelhaube Pilsner, Demoness Hopyard
Bottled: Fruit Lambic, Belgian Lambic
Secondary: None
On Deck: Red Magnum
In the Hole: Spider's Tongue

Web: https://www.facebook.com/GristAvauntours?ref=hl

RipUSMC is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply



Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Wort chiller or plate chiller? Kmcogar Equipment/Sanitation 20 08-01-2012 04:49 PM
Wort Chiller sweating into my wort Dr1nkBeer Equipment/Sanitation 2 06-18-2012 03:15 PM
50ft immersion chiller or 30plate wort chiller? molsonG Equipment/Sanitation 66 03-31-2011 01:36 AM
Wort Chiller Brett3rThanU Equipment/Sanitation 5 12-25-2008 12:01 AM
wort chiller and water/wort transfer questions chemist308 Equipment/Sanitation 1 03-24-2008 01:33 AM