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The Pol · 10-05-2009, 12:06 PM

Well, here is the "idea"...

Utilize (2) march pumps
(1) Therminator
(1) 10 gallons of ICE water

During the boil I clean my MLT.
Refill MLT with water and (3) gallons of ICE

After boil is complete operate ONE pump to recirc boiling wort through THERMINATOR back to the kettle to help sanitize therminator.

To chill, run both pumps at full flow. One to recirc ice water from MLT to the chiller and back to the MLT. The other pump will recirc the wort through the Therminator to the kettle through a QD fitting on the side of the kettle that is attached to a length of LocLine on the INside of the BK.

The PID thermocouple in the BK would monitor temp.

Would this work? I am looking to spend some money is all, is this an effective way to spend money?

Boerderij_Kabouter · 10-05-2009, 12:15 PM

That is more or less my plan Pol. Except I have my dual coil thing instead of the Therminator. I just got my second pump so I can finally put my plan into action. I have been using a 15' CFC in place of my second coil.

Anyway, My plan is to run the hose water over the ice and through the chiller until the wort gets to about 120, then start circulating the ice water (and maybe add a bit more ice). That way, your cooling water is always close to 32, but you don't waste as much ice during the initial cool down. I collect the initial cooling water (now HOT) for cleaning, like you do now I think.

If you want to go back to chilling your beer, this setup will get you to pitching temps in literally 15 minutes on a 10g batch. I say literally because the actual chilling time will likely be around 10 minutes, but circulation, cleaning, and connections take some time and you should count all that in a head to head with no-chill.

Worth the cost IMO.

**Lil' Sparky** · 10-05-2009, 12:19 PM

Why not utilize tap water to knock out the first 80º or so? It'll be just about as fast and save a lot of ice. I suspect 10 gals of ice water will be 80º pretty fast, at which point you need to add more ice.

**Lil' Sparky** · 10-05-2009, 12:21 PM

Also, you don't really need another march pump for the ice water. You can use a much cheaper, higher flow rate, pond pump for that. I think a march pump just for pumping ice water is way overkill (pricewise), unless you have another brewing purpose in mind.

The Pol · 10-05-2009, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lil' Sparky

Also, you don't really need another march pump for the ice water. You can use a much cheaper, higher flow rate, pond pump for that. I think a march pump just for pumping ice water is way overkill (pricewise), unless you have another brewing purpose in mind.

Do you know what it is like dragging hoses in the winter in Indiana? The ONLY way I will do this is if I can make it self contained. If I have to use a garden hose, it is game over and I wont do it.

I mean, quite literally I could probably do 5 gallons if ice (free) and 5 gallons of water in the MLT for the recirc. Again, if I am dragging hoses, I see no benefit to this whole setup as it then consists of connecting hoses, dragging them through snow and ice into the garage etc. I could use as much ice as the MLT will hold, I only NEED enough water to actually recirc through the hoses, pump and therminator... anything else is wasted thermal mass in water. I can think of an EASY way to create a 20 pound ice plug to fit into my MLT and fill the rest with water.

Cleaning the setup would be easier, since I do a hot Oxi clean on the kettle anyway, I can run the recirc pump through the Therminator and to the kettle during this process.

I would prefer a March pump, simply because I could use it for other brewing purposes later in life.

**Lil' Sparky** · 10-05-2009, 12:33 PM

Yeah, different brewing environments dictate different approaches. I brew outside and utilize hoses anyway, so that never came to mind.

Maybe some other guys here will chime in on how much ice you'll go through if you start recirculating it from the beginning. I just think it'll be more than you expect. Right now, I've got a double chiller setup. The wort first flows through a shirron plate chiller chilled with 80º+ tap water, then through a 25' coil in an ice bath. The wort exiting the shirron is < 100º, and I still go through 30-40 lbs of ice to chill 10 gals. It's a 1 pass setup to the fermenter at < 70º, but damn that's a lot of ice!

Boerderij_Kabouter · 10-05-2009, 12:37 PM

For that burning cash in your pocket... here is another project on my radar.

Basically it is a transfer station for wort. No more siphoning ever. I will use a Shurflo pump model 2088-492-144.

http://www.shurflo.com/pages/RV/rv_product_sum/rv_sum_docs/potable/park_model.html

OEM# 2088-492-144
Aftermarket # 2088-492-444
Description Intermittent duty
Multi fixture application
Voltage 115 VAC
Dimensions 8.70” x 5.00” x 4.50”
[221mm] x [127] x [113]
Flow Rate 3.3 GPM
[12.5 LPM]
Amps (Max.) 0.9
Shut-off Pressure 45 PSI
[3.1 BAR]

........................

Install the pump in a tool box with a switch and QD's hardmounted on the outside of the box. Racking, or generally moving wort would be so easy with this thing. Circulate sanitizer for a minute, hook up the QD's, and transfer super fast with no priming and no broken siphon equipment.

I have the estimate for hte whole unit around $120 and way cheaper if you have patience to find the pump on eBay.

Sawdustguy · 10-05-2009, 12:41 PM

Pol, your plan should work flawlessly IMHO.

Sawdustguy · 10-05-2009, 12:42 PM

Pol, your plan should work flawlessly IMHO. If you decide against doing this and your money is burning a hole in your pocket, you can always buy me something.

The Pol · 10-05-2009, 01:38 PM

It should work flawlessly? Are you being sarcastic?

Nothing I try works that well, the first time.

FWIW, this is to chill 5 gallon batches only.

I am just looking at the Therminator saying it can cool 10 gallons to 68F with 58F water in 5 minutes? This seems pretty optomisitic. 20 pound plug of ice, mixed with 5 gallons of water... I guess there is only one way to know, try it.