Stout Brew Kettles

slowing down the flow through the coil acts sort of non-intuitively.

While it would help the temperature inside the coil match the HLT, in the end you are adding less energy to the MLT. Essentially, the rate of heat transfer is proportional to the difference in temp between inside and outside. If the temp in the coil is equal to the temp outside the coil, you are not getting any more heat into the MLT from that section of the coil. By increasing the flow rate to the max that the false bottom can handle it, you are delivering as much energy to the MLT as the coil can provide. I'm still not certain what the max recirc rate is. I go 1 gpm, which is the max my pump can push through the coil.

I did find a solution, though. I spoke to a thermal expert at the research group I work with, and he questioned my derivation assumptions. I assumed that since I was recirculating the HLT at such a high rate (10 GPM, the center inlet pumps can really fly), that the outside surface of the coil would be a uniform temperature, which would be the same as the output of the HLT.

So, being a good little engineer, I went home with a spool of thermocouple wire, and probed the crap out of it. Turns out, the volume of water located inside the coil was significantly cooler (10 degs) than the volume outside the coil. So, the inside wall of the coil wasn't being productive, and was possibly hurting the heat transfer.

It is due to how I was recirculating. I used a 90 deg return barb hooked to the recirculation return port on the HLT, just like shown in Kal's website. However, the coil in the stout-tanks is a much smaller diameter, and the volume of water inside the coil wasn't being recirculated much, and was only affected by natural convection from the heating element below.

Finally, the fix: I had some extra tri-clamp stuff sitting around, so I made a tee on the inside of the recirculation port that split the return flow to outside the coil at an angle, like it was, and to shoot down the center of the coil as well.

The problem went away. The effluence of the coil (the output) was at the same temp as the HLT at my maximum recirculation rate. The MLT still lagged the HLT by 1.5 degs, but that isn't too bad, and I might add insulation to be able to step faster anyways.

I recently received a bottom drain mash tun from Stout as well. Although thankfully it doesn't leak, I'm still not completely satisfied. It came with a minor warp/dent in the side and the bottom skirt is slightly out of round. Maybe my expectations are too high, but it's not perfect. The kettle was better in the overall construction, but it did have bad welds on the fittings.

From all of my research, my impression was that Stout tanks are a great value and a top quality product, with the only downside being the wait for custom options. Unfortunately it seems there are issues with quality control and fit and finish. The tanks are inexpensive Chinese products. It seemed there was no comparison in the market for homebrew equipment, but if I had known about these issues I may have gone a different direction.

On a final note, the people at Stout have been great. For my mash tun at my request they leak tested it and packaged it well to ensure no damage occured in transit again.

Sorry to hear that, my kettles (all 3) came without any defects that I can find. I think if I was designing them from scratch I'd make some different choices, but the worksman ship on mine is fine at least.

Stout has always backed their products with me and replaced a bent top (damaged in shipping). I think the welded fitting are 1000% better than any weldless fitting (All of my Blickmanns leak). I have 2 conicals (14.5 and 27 gallon and we have made many batches and never had a problem. All of the :rockin:Stout equipment is easy to clean.

After a month of scouring the web for information on Stout I picked up a 15 gal. brew kettle today straight from the warehouse since I only live an hour away. John was a great host and encouraged me to open the boxed item prior to purchase to inspect for my satisfaction, no weld issues at all. Couldn't be happier with my purchase and I'm looking forward to many years of service from this brew kettle, I know it'll last a long time. While performing the initial cleaning I looked a little deeper into the quality of build and engineering and I cannot find any flaws. I'm a jet mechanic by trade so I know what I want to see here and I'm not disappointed. Hopefully John keeps up on customer service as the company grows and the quality runs in-line with where they're at now. Blichmann needs to step up their game if they want to compete. Recommending to all my homebrew buddies.

zach51chev said:

After a month of scouring the web for information on Stout I picked up a 15 gal. brew kettle today straight from the warehouse since I only live an hour away. John was a great host and encouraged me to open the boxed item prior to purchase to inspect for my satisfaction, no weld issues at all. Couldn't be happier with my purchase and I'm looking forward to many years of service from this brew kettle, I know it'll last a long time. While performing the initial cleaning I looked a little deeper into the quality of build and engineering and I cannot find any flaws. I'm a jet mechanic by trade so I know what I want to see here and I'm not disappointed. Hopefully John keeps up on customer service as the company grows and the quality runs in-line with where they're at now. Blichmann needs to step up their game if they want to compete. Recommending to all my homebrew buddies.

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If you have the thermometer 15 gallon kettle, can you please answer this question for me: If you have 5 gallons of wort in the 15 gallon kettle, is the thermometer submerged? Also, did it come with a dial thermometer or is it just the well for it?

Thanks!

Hi Dcoux09

This is John from Stout Tanks. We put the thermowell at approx. the 4 gal. level on the 15 gal. brew kettle. On the direct fire kettles, we do include a dial thermometer to go with the thermowell.

Cheers,

John/Stout Tanks and Kettles, LLC

jawsbc said:

Hi Dcoux09

This is John from Stout Tanks. We put the thermowell at approx. the 4 gal. level on the 15 gal. brew kettle. On the direct fire kettles, we do include a dial thermometer to go with the thermowell.

Cheers,

John/Stout Tanks and Kettles, LLC

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Thanks John,

I sent you an email asking about this question; I appreciate you getting back to me so quickly. I'm in the market for a new brew kettle and am in between yours and a 10 gallon Blichmann. I noticed on this thread that one gentleman from CT (which I also happen to be from ironically) had trouble with a weld. If I were to buy one from you guys, what's the warranty policy if something were damaged in shipping and could you test the kettle for leaks before it's sent? I've also read about your terrific customer service and see it first hand here. Thanks again!

- Dan

My kettle is still as it came, but they did supposedly leak test my mash tun before they sent it to me after I requested it. If the damage is repairable you'll have to find someone to repair it.

Hi Dan,

It's rare that we have leaks - our warranty is 1 year and we try to get repairs taken care of locally.

Remind us about the leak test and we will do it.

Cheers,

John

orangehero said:

My kettle is still as it came, but they did supposedly leak test my mash tun before they sent it to me after I requested it. If the damage is repairable you'll have to find someone to repair it.

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Wow... I think this cements my decision. Just out of curiosity, why would you buy a mash tun from them if they wouldn't replace your leaky kettle?

Custom orders can take several months to arrive. My mash tun, although not cosmetically perfect, doesn't leak. Stout is generally responsive and I think they try to take care of customers, but they aren't the ones making the tanks. Maybe you'll be lucky, it seems I'm the only one who's ever had issues.

I have there mash tun & 3 fermenters. I haven't had any problems.


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Hi Dcou9,

We found a nearby repair person for Orangehero some time ago, and recently he brought the tank there and the guy thought he would not be up to the job for the repair (when we described the issue on the phone, they said they could do it, but changed after they saw it). So we are unfortunately back at square one. We always try to be responsive!

Cheers,

John/Stout Tanks and Kettles

orangehero said:

Custom orders can take several months to arrive. My mash tun, although not cosmetically perfect, doesn't leak. Stout is generally responsive and I think they try to take care of customers, but they aren't the ones making the tanks. Maybe you'll be lucky, it seems I'm the only one who's ever had issues.

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You're not the only one. My brew kettle leaked due to a cracked weld around the main drain. The crack occurred after the first test boil of 15 gallons of water. I was able to get it fixed locally, but only after I took Stout to task for not offering to help find a welder.

They expected me to find one. My complaint was that they expected me to be able to judge the abilities of a welder even though I have no qualification to do so. How do I know what questions to ask? After complaining about that fact they finally picked up the phone and found a local welder.

Now if they would tell me why the ports for the sight glass are rusting at the welds inside the pot and find a fix I would be happy. They are rusting no matter how much passivation I try. But I doubt I'll ever hear from them again. It's already been several months and the last I recall hearing is that they are looking into why it's happening.

I've pretty much given up on them. Too bad I liked the design of the other pots and thought about using them when I go all grain.

YMMV.


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TX Joe,

Please contact us about your ports.

Thanks,

John/Stout Tanks

I am a huge Stout tanks fan and I love my fermenter. I'm even looking at getting another one.

With that said, I understand the people's frustrations when there is a weld issue. I know first hand how difficult it is to find a competent welder and the troubles in evaluating a persons skills. I also understand the cost implications with shipping and why a company would rather take care of things locally if at all possible. But I also don't think it's fair to put that burden on the customer when they expected to buy a ready to use product.

I'm sure we hear more from those that are unhappy, people tend to be more vocal when they have problems and I don't blame them for that. But if I had one suggestion John, I think that's the one area that needs some work and I don't have the answer for you but somehow if you could improve that area of your business I think it would go a long ways.

Hi TNugent,

Thanks for your feedback. Nobody likes to hear unpleasant feedback, but I'd rather hear it than not and have someone build pent up frustration. We can deal with issues we know about, but we can't deal with issues we don't know about.

We can/do help people find a welder if they need assistance. Some people do have friends/acquaintances or know qualified SS welders or know how to find one that is convenient for them, so we do ask about that first.

We prefer not to reship the kettles not just due to cost issues, but also because of the risk of damage in shipping. We've reduced shipping damage by changing shipping companies, but it can still happen, which only makes a bad situation even worse.

If someone had no idea about a welder, I can understand how that would feel like an additional burden put on them and we will try to be more sensitive about that going forward.

Thanks again!

Cheers,

John/Stout Tanks and Kettles

A leaking kettle and the warranty/repair policy was my biggest concern when I made my order from Stout Tanks. I looked for a local welder for quite a few months to customize a kettle but I could not find one that had any idea about back purging. Not finding a local welder was a big reason to order from Stout Tanks.

I only ended up ordering the kettle after John agreed to leak test the kettle before shipping. I was really nervous that after a 6 month wait time, I ordered in early November with an April/May delivery date, a kettle that leaked might show up at my door. Then I would be right back where I started, looking for a welder. Given that I have extra custom ports on the kettle I offered to pay for the extra caps for the leak test.

Without John agreeing to leak test the kettle before shipping I would not have made the order. Personally it seems odd that tanks and kettles are not checked for leaks as standard procedure so any issues could be addressed before shipping but I appreciated that John will check if you ask.

John

I am seriously considering stout for my new system but these issues are concerning. Every other business I've dealt with would cover the shipping back and repair it, heck I had a similar issue with another vendor for a comparable product and they shipped me out a brand new one before I even shipped the old one. Just my .02.


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So 6 months later I finally got my boil kettle to be worked on. For me it was not easy or fast by any means.

After a couple of false starts, it appears the company I finally settled with did a decent enough job, although they didn't grind the welds smooth like I requested. They're a little rough in places, but I suppose it's not really a concern for the boil kettle. They didn't pickle the welds either, so there's a HAZ and some rust is forming, but hopefully a few scrubs with Bar Keeper's Friend and a passivation rinse will take care of it. Some minor warpage of the walls as well, which I suppose is expected from a little too much heat.

Most important thing for me though is that it doesn't appear to be leaking any more, even though it looks like a tank that has been repaired. This was a frustrating experience for me and took a long time, definitely not what I expected, but at this point I'm just glad to have something I can use to boil wort with. The repair cost came out to be near as much as the tank itself. For whatever reason I did have to pay the weldor out of my own pocket, so I hope stout will reimburse me soon.

I do hope that this is the last of the problems. Otherwise I may just chuck it off the roof and get something else to brew with.

txjoe said:

They expected me to find one. My complaint was that they expected me to be able to judge the abilities of a welder even though I have no qualification to do so. How do I know what questions to ask? After complaining about that fact they finally picked up the phone and found a local welder.

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Same story here, but I had to do it on my own anyway...I figure how do I expect them to judge the abilities of a weldor over the phone. The first one they recommended to me was not a good choice.

txjoe said:

Now if they would tell me why the ports for the sight glass are rusting at the welds inside the pot and find a fix I would be happy. They are rusting no matter how much passivation I try. But I doubt I'll ever hear from them again. It's already been several months and the last I recall hearing is that they are looking into why it's happening.

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Good luck, hopefully it's repairable.

Hi V.,

Please send the invoice to us ASAP and we will take care of it. I'm sorry it was such an ordeal to get this taken care of - in other situations it has gone much smoother and quickly. While this is an infrequent problem, we are working on a design improvement to reduce the chances of it happening further.

Cheers,

John

That's the first thing I did. It seems easier to get your attention on Homebrewtalk than through your e-mail.

The ordeal isn't over, it's actually still leaking.

Sent from my roof. What a waste of time.

orangehero said:

That's the first thing I did. It seems easier to get your attention on Homebrewtalk than through your e-mail.

The ordeal isn't over, it's actually still leaking.

Sent from my roof. What a waste of time.

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Still leaking? Wow. I have very little experience welding, but this seems surprising. I understand that sanitary welds are challenging, but I would think that the challenge is in getting a 'perfect' weld, both in terms of aesthetics and functionality. Getting a weld to be water-tight shouldn't be very challenging to an experienced welder, right?

I guess I'm wondering how a weld could leak if it is done by a professional.

You can't tell where exactly it's leaking from. It just should never have left the factory the way it is.

Wow,I never knew. I always thought it was like really hot hot gluing. I'll stay away from welding, sounds like a pain

Just replace his kettle already


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So after two rounds of repairs, this POS kettle is still leaking. The shop doesn't want anything else to do with it, and these are guys who make aerospace components.

Geez.. they need to make this right.

I bought three kettles from Stout: HLT, MLT, BK.

They were a little messed up when I got them, Stout replaced them.

They are a great company and back up their products with excellent support.

With proper care and maintenance, I think you get a product that will last a lifetime and not a few years. I've been working in kitchens for twenty years and proper care ultimately determines whether a stainless pot will live or die.




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What's a little messed up? It's been 7 months and lots of additional time, effort, and expenditure on my part, and I still have a leaking kettle that I can't use. My mash tun I would say is a little messed up, but I'm just happy it's functional as far as I know. Actually I haven't had a chance to use it yet, but I wouldn't be shocked to find serious problems with it.

Some damage occurred in shipping...so it seemed. There were some rough edges, dents and dings.

It took a while for the new kettles to arrive. I purchased the kettles a year ago and am about to brew my first batch on them next weekend.


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I received my 20 gallon system from Stout this spring. The bottom outlet on the BK leaked. They gave the standard response and told me to find a welder. It was a real PITA. They agreed to swap it if I paid the shipping. That was not agreeable to me. I found a local welder. He could not get his tip in to get to the leak.

After that, they agreed to the exchange. It was frustrating because I spent months designing the system, weeks installing and plumbing it after it finally arrived...just to find out it leaked with my first run of water. then I get the run around....but now that it is resolved...Overall, I am pleased with the system. Still trying to calibrate the herms with the Blichmann tower of power.

It is there business and not mine...but I would rather they add $5.00 to every piece and just pay for the shipping to swap out faulty units. mistakes will happen and QC on goods from China can be tough. But the customer should not be the one doing the legwork.

Incidently, I have a 7 gallon fermentor that has been flawless for the last few years. I will be adding a larger one for my larger system soon. Probly from Stout.

Also my first Stout Boil kettle (9 gal) leaks as well. Very slightly. I never reported it because I never noticed it til I left a batch of One Step in it overnight. I still use it...the flames burn off the slight drip. Though I do not use it for beer anymore. It makes an awesome tank for crawfish/seafood boils. Open the valve drain the liquid in to a bucket....pour out on to a table and have a party!

So you're 3 for 5? They say that leaks are rare and are fixed quickly, but I can't imagine it not being an incredible PITA for the average homebrewer to get stainless tanks repaired. If I had known, I would have gladly paid extra to avoid all of this. It has been an extremely frustrating waste of my time dealing with this tank.

Make sure you request for them to leak test before they ship you anything. Even then it's not a sure bet. This last time I got my kettle back, I had it filled with water for several days without a drop. When I went ahead with circulating hot citric acid to passivate the stainless steel, after a couple of hours there was liquid coming from the back of the fitting again.

Orangehero - I feel for all the issues you've had. All 3 kettles (20g) in my electric system work great and I have no leaks. Once thing I never noticed until cleaning my mash tun after the first batch is that I have a small dent in it near the left handle. They had so much bling that I stared right at it and never noticed it even when setting up. As it doesn't affect anything I never contacted Stout about the issue.

If I had to do it over I'd still order the kettles from Stout, however I'd change 2 things. 1) I'd delete the HERMS coil and go with a larger aftermarket coil which I'll be ordering today, and 2) I'd have them move the thermowell for the temp sensor a little lower in the MLT as on normal gravity beers if I don't dough in using 1.5 qt/lb then the mash doesn't reach the sensor.

I also like that you can order the kettles the way you want them. On mine I deleted the temp gauge and thermowell on the front of the tanks. I added a thermowell for the temp sensor probes where I wanted them located. Very customizable.

I like my Stout equipment as well. The HERMS coil is inadequate in my setuo. We have gone back to a Chin Chiller as a HERMS. We also take the temp just before entering the fitting at the top of the MLT and also on the out of the Mash Tun. With a BCS you can average these two and that seems to work for us. We do not use the thermowels. I am surprised you have not found a Stainless steel welder that cannot fix the leak.

It's funny how many of us have problems with their coil. I wonder if they will change their design

I did find a good stainless weldor...they tried to repair it two separate times before telling me they want nothing more to do with it.

Stout said they would finally replace it, but they are really taking their time. I think they were trying to say it was my fault for running a passivation rinse that caused the repairs to fail.

I had thought about buying a Stout kettle, but I have seen the prices go up and it seems the quality that should be in a $400-$500 dollar kettle is not there. A $400 15 gal. kettle should be flawless at such a premium price. Sorry but Stout is now off my watch list

This is John from Stout Tanks.

We've had to replace only 2 kettles ever that couldn't be repaired. Unfortunately, Orange Hero got one of those. After he notified us that the repair didn't take, we immediately started on a new kettle.

We also are changing the design on these kettles to prevent this in the future.

We take these issues seriously and want to ensure we have happy customers. In Orange Hero's case, it appears that the process has gotten drawn out due to a delay in getting the tank to the repair shop after we found one close to him. We do our best to respond quickly to any customer issue and efficiently.

Cheers,

John/Stout Tanks and Kettles