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Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Equipment/Sanitation > Stainless Conical Fermenter from Bitter Creek Homebrew: Review ala Boerderij Kabouter

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Old 05-27-2009, 08:59 PM   #41
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Looks like it would be easy to build a section that clamps onto the fermenter to add volume. Seems like a possible option.

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Old 05-27-2009, 09:34 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh_Jass View Post
When racking from the conical to a corney, is it possible to never expose the beer to an uncontrolled environment?
I'm thinking
sanitize keg and purge with co2
pressurize conical
attach hose to valve on conical and attach other end to product side of keg
open pressure valve on keg and open valve on conical.

Am I missing something?
i do that now with carboys in to kegs.
i use a medical vacume pump and hook it to the IN on the keg and then hook OUT to my racking cane with a carboy cap
it works so damn good and is fast.
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Old 05-27-2009, 09:39 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh_Jass View Post
When racking from the conical to a corney, is it possible to never expose the beer to an uncontrolled environment?
I'm thinking
sanitize keg and purge with co2
pressurize conical
attach hose to valve on conical and attach other end to product side of keg
open pressure valve on keg and open valve on conical.

Am I missing something?
yes it can be done if the conical can take pressure. I am sure even the cheap ones can made to accept enough pressure to transfer the beer however I don't think I would want to try carbing in one that isn't capable of handling 30 psi
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Old 05-27-2009, 09:59 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boerderij_Kabouter View Post
Think you could've taken the pictures without drooling on 'em?
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Old 06-21-2009, 08:36 PM   #45
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Hi all,
First let me start off with saying that this reply is in NO way a "Flame" or meant to be "Snarky" or any other form of negativity. I just think that there are few things that should be pointed out as concerns where SS fermenters are concerned and a few things that caught my eye on these.

Everyone always get excited when they see the Stainless Steel (Myself included) but what I never see or hear anyone ask is what type is it? There are allot of different types of SS, some of them are good for the purpose of beer making and fermenting and some are not. I would be asking what type of SS is this made from and is there a mill certification available. The most common types of SS for food grade use are 304L & 316L and just to clarify there many different types of 304 & 316 SS out there. 304, 304L, 304LI, 304LS are just a few examples.

304 stainless is a low carbon (0.08% max) version of basic 18-8 also known as 302.

Type 304L has a carbon content of 0.03% or less. This alloy can be used in the as-welded condition without becoming susceptible to intergranular corrosion.

The reason this is important is that any time there is welding and polishing done on SS it changes the molecular make up of the metal and basically with out getting into a long boring topic, it brings the carbons to the surface of the welds heat affected zone and that is what causes your SS to rust or Rouge. In the pictures I can see light surface rust/rouge already starting to form as well there being lack of fusion/penetration (LF) (LP) in the welds from the polishing that has been done.
The next concern I have is I noticed allot of talk about the pressure rating of 35 PSI. Is this a Pressure rated vessel with an ASME cert saying it has been tested and can withstand that pressure with a +- safety factor? With the way the welds look I would be very careful about putting these under pressure with out something saying (on paper) they can handle the stated pressure. 35psi might not sound like much but if that fermenter ruptured @ 35psi it would be very bad maybe even life threatening. Just about everything we brew with is ASME rated (Corny kegs, beer kegs Co2, N2, Propane tanks/cylinders even beer bottles and cans) Like I said earlier not trying to bash anyone or thing just pointing out what I see and am concerned about. It is overall A very nice looking unit and I am not familiar with the other unit so its not a comparison. I would just hate to have someone spend allot of cash without asking a few questions and end up regretting it. Sorry if this was long winded !

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Old 06-21-2009, 08:44 PM   #46
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Good points to bring up thantos.

The conical is stainless 304. Food grade and I cannot see any surface rust or rouge. Maybe I don't know what I am looking for with stainless, but I have studied metallurgy and worked in the field with hard facing alloys and there is no rust on the unit now. After a few batches I cannot speak to, but it is clean at the start...

I pressurized it up to 30 psi and everything was tight and easy. I don't have any paper cert. but maybe Rich can chime in???

BTW-

I have this thing full of beer now. I don't know what to take pics of yet, but if you have any questions about the brewing process with this, let me know.

It was easy to fill and taking samples is awesome! It is soooooo easy to just feel bored and go check the gravity. Nice!

I will be dumping trub for the first time in a few days and will take pics of that... ask questions or for pics if you can think of anything for me to document.

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Old 06-21-2009, 08:57 PM   #47
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This would definitely qualify as a nice toy...when do you think these will be made available?

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Old 06-21-2009, 11:48 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boerderij_Kabouter View Post
Good points to bring up thantos.

The conical is stainless 304. Food grade and I cannot see any surface rust or rouge. Maybe I don't know what I am looking for with stainless, but I have studied metallurgy and worked in the field with hard facing alloys and there is no rust on the unit now. After a few batches I cannot speak to, but it is clean at the start...

I pressurized it up to 30 psi and everything was tight and easy. I don't have any paper cert. but maybe Rich can chime in???

BTW-

I have this thing full of beer now. I don't know what to take pics of yet, but if you have any questions about the brewing process with this, let me know.

It was easy to fill and taking samples is awesome! It is soooooo easy to just feel bored and go check the gravity. Nice!

I will be dumping trub for the first time in a few days and will take pics of that... ask questions or for pics if you can think of anything for me to document.
I have attached a couple marked up pics that show examples. Thanks for the kind words I figured I would get flamed for sure!



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Last edited by thantos; 06-22-2009 at 12:17 AM. Reason: Trying to fix the links
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Old 06-22-2009, 12:00 AM   #49
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For some reason I can't see you links, they say they go to nowhere???

No reason you should be flamed. Your comments add to the review and are good things to know.

What are the possible problems that could arise from the defects you see?

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Old 06-22-2009, 12:52 AM   #50
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Justin,
I fixed the picture, so just look above for my comments. I will try to give you the quickie explanation of SS and Rouging and what it leads too.

Rouging is a thin film, usually reddish-brown or golden in color, of iron oxide or hydroxide, typically on stainless steels. The contrast between this film and shiny metal accentuates this aesthetics problem. The rouge film typically wipes off easily with a light cloth but it reforms while the process fluid is in contact with the stainless steel. This problem is most chronic in the pharmaceutical industry, large scale breweries on the interior surfaces of high purity water (i.e., water for injection, WFI, RO, and DI) distillation units, storage tanks, distribution systems (piping, valves, pump housings, fittings, etc.) and process vessels and fermenters.

As stated, rouge is ferric oxide (i.e., rust), but the film may contain not only iron but also chromium and nickel compounds in various forms, and hence the film may vary in color and tenacity. Rouging is experienced more on Type 304/304L stainless steel than on Type 316/316L, and less on electropolished surfaces than mechanically polished surfaces. Particles of rust can become dislodged and be dispersed throughout a piping distribution system, often collecting on in-line filters.

The passive layer on the surface of stainless steels can breakdown by the interaction with the liquid process, which is devoid of ionic species, leading to rouging, or rust blooms. The ionic pull of the water is strong enough to strip the protective chromium oxide off the steel surface.

Another process, which is more damaging, is the creation and propagation of pits. Non-metallic inclusions, such as sulfides, oxides, etc., are an inherent result of alloy production. They are dispersed throughout the metal and are highly susceptible to attack by aggressive environments. Typically these inclusions are dissolved in a particular solution or environment and leave a micro-void behind. This void becomes an occluded cell where solution chemistry can be different from the bulk solution. The corrosion products within the now formed pit spill out onto the bulk metal surface producing localized rouging or rust blooms.

Sorry for the long boring post, I work in the pharmaceutical industry and SS, rouging, piping and fermenters are my area of expertise I guess you could say. I do realize that there is a big difference between the two areas but at the same time there really isn't if you know what I mean. Anyway hope this helps.
Gene

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