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Old 03-03-2011, 02:07 PM   #21
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all i am saying is that there are far larger more complicated systems for more money that do the same thing. i like the small footprint. it might take less skill but in the end i think you would be more able to reproduce beers more acurately and brew more in the long run becasue of the less ammount of work. I just can see my self building or buying one of those huge keg systems like a brutus when this can pretty much do the same thing for less money. From what I have read some guys that have built or bought 3 vessel systems like the brustus and had never seen a plug and play system like thing before regretted going through the work or spending all that money. I dont know im going to pull the trigger and let you guys know how it works out.

Im really dont care if the process to make beer is art as long as the result tastes like it is.

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Old 03-03-2011, 02:37 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by multipletazas View Post
I just can see my self building or buying one of those huge keg systems like a brutus when this can pretty much do the same thing for less money.
No, it can't, and it isn't. You can build a brutus type system for 1/3 what this system costs, and this system will never give you the flexibility a brutus will. For most of us here, it's not about having some cheap beer at hand, nor about how much we can brew: it's about learning from the process, so we can eventually make a better product, or one that's more suited to our particular tastes. Evolving.
That system could never give you that, simply because it takes control of the process. That way, you just become a material handler, not a brewer.

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Im really dont care if the process to make beer is art as long as the result tastes like it is.
And that's great. If that's what you want, go for it. But, again, you can achieve the same goal, at a fraction of the money (and the work) by just brewing kits. But then again, it's your call.
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Old 03-03-2011, 03:11 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Inodoro_Pereyra View Post
No, it can't, and it isn't. You can build a brutus type system for 1/3 what this system costs, and this system will never give you the flexibility a brutus will. For most of us here, it's not about having some cheap beer at hand, nor about how much we can brew: it's about learning from the process, so we can eventually make a better product, or one that's more suited to our particular tastes. Evolving.
That system could never give you that, simply because it takes control of the process. That way, you just become a material handler, not a brewer.



And that's great. If that's what you want, go for it. But, again, you can achieve the same goal, at a fraction of the money (and the work) by just brewing kits. But then again, it's your call.
no matter what system i choose to buy or make. I will not build a system that will do more than 5 gallons. and please tell me how a brutus type system could brew better beers. this seems to be the opposite found on other forums in Australia and Germany where people actually have lots of experience with this system many of which have moved from big 3 vessel systems to this one or one like it. technology and advancement ususally means a simpler path to the same result and that is what i consider this. once again i am just taking peoples word for it that have been brewing alot longer than i have.

are you sure that once you add up the cost of materials and put a price on your man hour that this system is still more expensive than a brutus? i for one dont think so.
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Old 03-03-2011, 03:25 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Inodoro_Pereyra View Post
No, it can't, and it isn't. You can build a brutus type system for 1/3 what this system costs, and this system will never give you the flexibility a brutus will. For most of us here, it's not about having some cheap beer at hand, nor about how much we can brew: it's about learning from the process, so we can eventually make a better product, or one that's more suited to our particular tastes. Evolving.
That system could never give you that, simply because it takes control of the process. That way, you just become a material handler, not a brewer.



And that's great. If that's what you want, go for it. But, again, you can achieve the same goal, at a fraction of the money (and the work) by just brewing kits. But then again, it's your call.
if you know of a company that makes a 5 gallon system for 2000 let me know. I have to many projects under my belt to start a brewery build. i just want to open a box some assembly required and pow pour in the grain.
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Old 03-03-2011, 03:37 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Inodoro_Pereyra View Post
No, it can't, and it isn't. You can build a brutus type system for 1/3 what this system costs, and this system will never give you the flexibility a brutus will. For most of us here, it's not about having some cheap beer at hand, nor about how much we can brew: it's about learning from the process, so we can eventually make a better product, or one that's more suited to our particular tastes. Evolving.
That system could never give you that, simply because it takes control of the process. That way, you just become a material handler, not a brewer.



And that's great. If that's what you want, go for it. But, again, you can achieve the same goal, at a fraction of the money (and the work) by just brewing kits. But then again, it's your call.
While I agree that one can build a system for less money, I strongly disagree with the "material handler" comment. If that were true, anyone who has built a system with automation is no longer truly a brewer, nor are many commercial microbreweries. The brewer still controls the recipe, the ingredients, the mash parameters, and everything on the cold side.

The Braumeister makes the realization of the mash schedule easier (time and temperature), provides an excellent brewing system in a small footprint, and makes for easier cleanup due to fewer vessels. Sure, the capacity is limited by the size of the unit, but that is true in any system. It looks to me like in the 20l system one will have to mash to yield a more concentrated wort, then add make-up water. I am unclear as to how large a grain bill will fit in the tube, and I suspect that really high-gravity brews are out, or will yield less than 20l. So your point regarding flexibility is well taken, but due to capacity issues rather than automation or single-vessel design. However, if the OP understands those constraints and is not concerened about them, then more power to him.

Hey, I can prepare beef wellington and spend a good portion of the day doing it, employing a knife, cutting board, food processor, mixing bowl, rolling pin, and roasting pan. But there are also plenty of outstanding dishes I can prepare in a single pan, dutch oven, or crock pot.
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Old 03-03-2011, 03:43 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by multipletazas View Post
if you know of a company that makes a 5 gallon system for 2000 let me know. I have to many projects under my belt to start a brewery build. i just want to open a box some assembly required and pow pour in the grain.
Well, there would be more work involved to assemble, but a propane tank and burner, 15-gallon pot and lid, voile bag, stainless rack to keep the bag off the bottom, ball valve kit, step bit, mash paddle, immersion chiller, and some silicon hose would give you the same functionality minus the electric firing and the automation, for about 1/4 the price. However, time is money, and there is nothing wrong with your plan.
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Old 03-03-2011, 04:21 PM   #27
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While I agree that one can build a system for less money, I strongly disagree with the "material handler" comment. If that were true, anyone who has built a system with automation is no longer truly a brewer, nor are many commercial microbreweries. The brewer still controls the recipe, the ingredients, the mash parameters, and everything on the cold side.

The Braumeister makes the realization of the mash schedule easier (time and temperature), provides an excellent brewing system in a small footprint, and makes for easier cleanup due to fewer vessels. Sure, the capacity is limited by the size of the unit, but that is true in any system. It looks to me like in the 20l system one will have to mash to yield a more concentrated wort, then add make-up water. I am unclear as to how large a grain bill will fit in the tube, and I suspect that really high-gravity brews are out, or will yield less than 20l. So your point regarding flexibility is well taken, but due to capacity issues rather than automation or single-vessel design. However, if the OP understands those constraints and is not concerened about them, then more power to him.

Hey, I can prepare beef wellington and spend a good portion of the day doing it, employing a knife, cutting board, food processor, mixing bowl, rolling pin, and roasting pan. But there are also plenty of outstanding dishes I can prepare in a single pan, dutch oven, or crock pot.
from what i have understood high gravity brews and larger grain bills can be achieved by making wort once and then leaving the wort in the vessel disposing of spent grain and adding new grain and starting a new session using the wort from the previous session. when i heard that people were using this method to make any beer they wanted to i was like score. I originally wanted to get the 50 liter unit because i was not limited in grain bill size if doing 5 gallon batches. now i can stick with the 5 gallon system save 1000 dollars but i have to let the system go an extra session for big beers. i mean sure its an extra step.

And i really disagree with the comment of just being a material handler. I was at a micro brewery yesterday (Big Bear Brewery in florida) and alot of processes are automated and the guy that runs the place is called a BREWMASTER not a MATERIAL HANDLER!
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Old 03-03-2011, 04:28 PM   #28
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I have pretty much made up my mind on purchasing this system. now its just a matter of seeing if i can get a better deal.

I contacted Speidel yesterday and it seems that Morebeer.com is going to be the sole distributor for this product in the near future. I am assuming that they will be able to offer better a better price on this unit because they have more buying power and hopefully pass on that savings to us.

the current distributor does not have any stock and their reason for this was that since it ships direct from the Germany to your door you are saving on shipping costs from Germany to them then to you. they pass on that savings. I don't know about this and to tell you the truth i got the impression that morebeer4u.com is a really small operation and that is why they do not have anything in stock.

i might wait for morebeer.com to get these in before i go for it.

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Old 03-03-2011, 04:38 PM   #29
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I just found the english manual

http://www.speidels-braumeister.de/media/content/pdf/brewing_instruction_20l.pdf

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Old 03-03-2011, 05:10 PM   #30
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That's very interesting regarding adding a second grain bill to the first wort to make a high-gravity brew. That should work, though I wonder what effect it will have on the pH of the mash. I would definitely invest in a pH meter, which is a good practice regardless.

Good luck with the unit. I would be very interested in some feedback on it once you get a few batches under your belt. I hope you do not have to wait too long to get a hold of one.

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