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Old 09-24-2009, 03:18 PM   #21
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RIMS/HERMS/DICHES/DFRMS who cares. The more I think about it the more they are the same.

My system is a DFRMS/HERMS which I have termed DICHES (Dual Immersion Coil Heat Exchange System).

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Old 09-24-2009, 03:19 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knightbeer39 View Post
Does that system work well?? A little harder to hit the temperature target perhaps?
More attention for obvious reasons.

#1 typically you are using propane, with no temp controller
#2 typically you are monitoring the MASH temp and you are not really aware of what the temp is in te bottom of the MLT

RIMS and HERMS many times use electric, whicih is easy to wire to a temp controller, so they are hands off.
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Old 09-24-2009, 03:22 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Pol View Post
More attention for obvious reasons.

#1 typically you are using propane, with no temp controller
#2 typically you are monitoring the MASH temp and you are not really aware of what the temp is in te bottom of the MLT

RIMS and HERMS many times use electric, whicih is easy to wire to a temp controller, so they are hands off.
I suspect I will go to that eventually, but just to start up the system I will probably go with three burners. My concern was that if the thermometer is near the bottom of the mash tun, then it will be reading higher than the temperature of the mash above it--but in theory that would be at least partially mitigated by the fact you are recirculating.

So many options!!!!
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Old 09-24-2009, 03:25 PM   #24
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Gas heat is also easy to wire for control via PID. In fact I would argue it is just as easy aselectric, now that I've figured it out. For $190 you can wire up a PID controlled automatic firing control system for your existing burner.

Standing Pilot light burner with control $192.74
HONEYWELL VR8200A2124 24 Vac Dual Standing Pilot Gas Valve $61.99
1/4" OD Aluminum Pilot Tubing $10.00 Local Hardware 5'
Pilot bracket assembly - Honeywell Q314A6094 B Bracket $16.16
Liquid tight RTD sensor, 2” probe, M16 Thread $29.95
M16 flanged nut $3.69 McMaster-Carr 91005A039
Universal 1/16 DIN PID Temperature Controller $41.95
3-way red LED Selector switch (burner ON/OFF/AUTO) $29.00

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Old 09-24-2009, 03:36 PM   #25
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I recently added a solenoid gas valve to the MT burner on my direct fired RIMS. I operate the valve with a remote control switch. I plan to add a controller eventually, but I'm not in a hurry to do so as this is working very well as is. Cost was about $40 for the valve. I made a simple pilot light using 1/4" copper tubing and a needle valve for another $6. Should have done this a long time ago.

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Old 09-24-2009, 03:39 PM   #26
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Cool guys, I just thought it was easier to add an on/off temp control to a heating element than a solenoid valve and pilot to a burner along with the temp controller

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Old 09-24-2009, 03:47 PM   #27
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Quote:
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Cool guys, I just thought it was easier to add an on/off temp control to a heating element than a solenoid valve and pilot to a burner along with the temp controller
You are definitely correct about easier for something like your e-HLT. That setup is sweet! But once you get to 220VAC, SSR, and all the wiring that goes with it, the gas is just as simple (or complicated depending on which side of the table you are on)

Basically, either is great and it just comes down to personal preference.
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Old 09-24-2009, 03:53 PM   #28
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DFRMS is still RIMS I suppose. It can be automated with gas control (Brutus). I run it full manual and I actually don't recirculate full time because it cause more heat loss than necessary. In the winter, I check my mash temp every 15 minutes and apply about 2 minutes of heat while I recirculate. In the summer, it happens once at the 30 minute mark. The biggest advantage to a DFRMS so far as most people are concerned is the ability to quickly step temps. I'm not 100% sure I agree there because in all case, you don't want to overheat your mash too much especially in the middle steps of a multi step mash.

Note, I think the acronyms given to these mash temp control systems are a little forced. "infusion mash"? Seriously, which mashes are not infused? If all the temp changes are by infusion, there would be no reason to recirculate. It sounds like the intent of the names are to describe how temperatures are changed and/or maintained.

Maybe
SIMS (stirred infusion mash system) THis is water, plus grain, and a mash paddle.
DFSMS (direct fired stirred mash system) water, plus grain, a flame and a mash paddle.
EHXRMS (electric heat exchanger recirculating mash system) Seriously, RIMS is a horrible name for this but I suppose it rings more than EHXRMS.
HERMS is probably the most accurate description of what really happens but there's plenty of variation on how the temp is controlled (e.g. where the temp probe is placed)


I'm getting a little sidetracked but I'm leaning towards RIMS (heat tube) in the future. I like the idea of being able to run a compact loop that doesn't rely on having an HLT or other vessel filled with hot water for the length of the mash. That's not to say I see huge advantages. You'll have to have your HLT filled with hot water eventually for sparging. If you use an electric element in a cooler based HLT like Pol does, heat loss is minimized and it's very efficient.

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Old 09-24-2009, 04:26 PM   #29
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Great information and food for thought. Thank you all. I'm just in the initial stages of building a system and I know I can upgrade, but want something I'll be happy with for a year or two while I cogitate on upgrades. And of course I want to upgrade to 10+ gallons. I've been an AG brewer for 10 years now and have just always sort of went along with my usual ghetto system in 5 gallon batches.

Is there a build thread anywhere here on how to install a hot water heater element into a keggle or pot for a HLT? What about how to install one in-line (in some sort of pipe housing?) with the circulation system in a RIMS? I would love to browse these to help me make a decision on just how complicated it will be (I'm not a welder, and unfortunately not all that "handy" either...)

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Old 09-24-2009, 06:09 PM   #30
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Yah.... there is a link for that...

There is a lot of info there on my build. But you can see the step by step building of a "safe" heating element and how to simply and cheaply install it in a leak proof manner.

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/blin...version-93217/

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