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Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Equipment/Sanitation > RIMS vs. HERMS
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Old 04-20-2006, 01:31 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Brewpastor
The elephant in the middle of the room is the question of the necessity of steps. It is sort of the whole protein rest issue all over again. I do understand the benefit of temperature control and mash-out... and there are those #&@!! wheat beers... but if you can manage with single infusion why mess with it. I can't see that you would get the benefits of decoction.

But who am I to talk? If you want the toys, GO FOR IT!
Excellent point. Step mashing is often coupled with decoction. The decoction step itself will probably have more impact on the finished beer than simply stepping through the various temperature rests. And yes, I totally agree about stepping in general. I think it is an over-emphasized practice that creates more problems than benefits for the average homebrewer.

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Originally Posted by alemonkey
...It seems I would need a more complicated (and thus more expensive) controller for HERMS. I'm still feeling out the prices on both systems. Price isn't the main factor, but it does come into play.
There shouldn't be any difference between controllers for RIMS or HERMS. A standard PID controller will do fine for either one. The key is; what is the controller actually controlling?

In a way, the RIMS people have it figured out better than the HERMS people do. They have their controllers controlling power to the heating element that actually heats the wort. I've seen HERMS people have their controllers control power to the pump, or even a set of solenoid by-pass valves around the heat source. Neither of these HERMS approaches actually controls the temprature of the wort exiting the heat source. The other aspect is thermocouple placement. Another bugaboo that's too long to post here. Suffice it to say, unless your controller has direct control over the actual temperature of the wort exiting your heat source, you're not gaining much in the way of temperature control.

I still like the HERMS approach when it's properly designed. The scorching issue of direct contact has always bothered me.
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Old 04-21-2006, 01:05 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brewpastor
The elephant in the middle of the room is the question of the necessity of steps. It is sort of the whole protein rest issue all over again. I do understand the benefit of temperature control and mash-out... and there are those #&@!! wheat beers... but if you can manage with single infusion why mess with it. I can't see that you would get the benefits of decoction.

But who am I to talk? If you want the toys, GO FOR IT!
I've done step mashes with a regular infusion - it's not hard to do since Promash calculates it all for you. But, I've never noticed much of a difference.

The main reason I'm interested in a RIMS or HERMS is the ability to more accurately control my mash temperature. About 95% of the time I hit my strike temp dead on with a regular old infusion. But, I still mess it up every now and then.

The other reason is because I'm thinking about getting a pump anyway, to save my back. I'd rather let the pump lift wort and hot water than me. Plus, I want to upgrade to a 10 gallon system, so I'll need a new kettle and mash tun no matter what.

Plus, I like gadgets
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Old 04-21-2006, 02:12 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alemonkey
...The main reason I'm interested in a RIMS or HERMS is the ability to more accurately control my mash temperature. About 95% of the time I hit my strike temp dead on with a regular old infusion. But, I still mess it up every now and then.

The other reason is because I'm thinking about getting a pump anyway, to save my back. I'd rather let the pump lift wort and hot water than me. Plus, I want to upgrade to a 10 gallon system, so I'll need a new kettle and mash tun no matter what.

Plus, I like gadgets
Definitely a worthwhile effort. The ability to add heat to your mash is a big advantage of an RMS. You are dead right, sometimes, you just screw up your initial strike temps and the mash doesn't end up where you want it. An RMS makes it very easy to heat up the whole thing a few degrees fairly quickly. Pumps are also handy even if you don't have an RMS. You can use them to vorlauf instead of manually doing this. The results are much better and faster too.

I hope you are considering a converted keg for your new kettle. And did I mention kettle screens......

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Old 04-21-2006, 03:05 PM   #14
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But who am I to talk? If you want the toys, GO FOR IT!
I've seen pics of your garage, and I'd say you're NOBODY to talk when it comes to toys!

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Old 04-22-2006, 12:32 AM   #15
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I hope you are considering a converted keg for your new kettle. And did I mention kettle screens......

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I hadn't even considered anything else - I have an 8 gallon keg now for my kettle and I love it.
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Old 12-24-2007, 09:55 AM   #16
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I'm new to homebrew talk so first I'd like to say hi to everyone.
I am designing a RIMS system, I have two pumps so I am going to be able to circulate hot water and wort at the same time. can anyone see any problems with using my plated wort chiller as a heater for my mashing?
I have an electric Burco kettle that I use to prepare my mash liquer. and I plan to pump hot water from this to one side of the plated chiller/heater whilst I pump the wort to the other side. This way I hope to eliminate any caramalisation of the wort by having the wort in direct contact with a heater.

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Old 12-24-2007, 01:22 PM   #17
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That seems like a clever idea. I don't recall anyone discussing using a wort chiller as a RIMS heater before. I don't see why it wouldn't work.

The biggest threat would be a clog from grain bits from your mash. Make sure your false bottom is good, the grain bed is set, and don't stir again. You could recirculate the mash back to itself directly, bypassing the chiller/heater, until it runs clear, then hook it up to the chiller/heater.

I'm not the most experienced brewer, so it'll be good to wait for other opinions. But it sounds like a good plan.

Welcome to the board.

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Old 09-24-2009, 04:00 PM   #18
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Default RIMS vs HERMS

BUMP

I'm designing a system myself and have been debating the same thing. I am probably going to use a single tiered/ 3 vessel RIMS system. Based on reading the posts in this thread, there seems to be the implication that a RIMS system requires you to pump the wort past an electric heating element on its way back to the top of the MLT. But can't you also just have a burner under the MLT, heat the wort from the bottom, and recirculate it up to the top again???? Would this not still be technically a RIMS system?

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Old 09-24-2009, 04:06 PM   #19
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BUMP

I'm designing a system myself and have been debating the same thing. I am probably going to use a single tiered/ 3 vessel RIMS system. Based on reading the posts in this thread, there seems to be the implication that a RIMS system requires you to pump the wort past an electric heating element on its way back to the top of the MLT. But can't you also just have a burner under the MLT, heat the wort from the bottom, and recirculate it up to the top again???? Would this not still be technically a RIMS system?
Technically that would be a DFRMS...

Direct Fired Recirculating Mash System....

But yeah, many people do it, BobbyM???
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Old 09-24-2009, 04:14 PM   #20
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Does that system work well?? A little harder to hit the temperature target perhaps?

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