New Giveaway - Wort Monster Conical Fermenter!

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Equipment/Sanitation > Recurrent infection. Help me before I drop out!




Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-10-2012, 03:45 PM   #1
Tiroux
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Thurso, Québec
Posts: 465
Liked 8 Times on 7 Posts

Default Recurrent infection. Help me before I drop out!

I had infections on 2 beers recently. The first one, it didn't surprise me, since it was our first beer, and everything was poorly done, the cooling took hours, etc... Anyway, we learned and step forward. But then the 3rd beer, showed signs of infections avec the bottling. Big leather taste and acidic smell.

We looked for the problem everywhere. I bought a new transfert tube, with a auto-siphon to clean it well... I bought StarSan, wich seems way better than what I used before. Then on the last bottling, our beer number 7, we doubled our sanitizing mania, everything was clean, star san'ed... We where 4, so we worked in chain... Cleaning, double rinse, star san, filling, capping... everything was done in less than a minute!

Before bottling, the beer was great. Coffe milk stout.. it was roasty, great coffee flavor... great body after we had lactose... but now, 1 week after bottling.. this little leather flavor again, it's ''carbonated'', but the foam goes completly in 5 seconds... no body, no sweetness...

What is the ******* problem!? I begin to really loose hope.

Ok, our brewing setup is not so good, the cooling can take too long... but if the contamination comes from there, why it doesnt show up before it's in bottles, after 4-5 weeks after brew day? Fermentation goes well, like normal.

Or maybe it ain't contamination, but another problem?



__________________
Tiroux is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-10-2012, 04:15 PM   #2
Gartywood
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Windsor, CT
Posts: 303
Liked 10 Times on 10 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

Leather flavor could be oxidation



__________________
Gartywood is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-10-2012, 04:23 PM   #3
Tiroux
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Thurso, Québec
Posts: 465
Liked 8 Times on 7 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gartywood View Post
Leather flavor could be oxidation
Seriously... I would be HAPPY if it's true. Why?

I was worried about oxydation, because with our sh*tty equipment setup, we had to transfert hot wort from a bucket to another, and when we were sparging, the wort was falling from high in a bucket.

But since I recieved this week a REAL mashing/boiling kettle and everything. That would mean the problem could be over.
__________________
Tiroux is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-10-2012, 06:51 PM   #4
gingerdawg
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 385
Liked 33 Times on 25 Posts
Likes Given: 15

Default

oxidation is only a problem POST fermentation. How did you transfer your beer to the bottling bucket and bottles?

__________________
gingerdawg is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-10-2012, 06:54 PM   #5
ghosthef
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 207
Liked 54 Times on 30 Posts

Default

Are you using a plastic primary? Scratches can get bacteria in there and are very hard to get out. How about your oxygen lock? Are you filling it with tap water? I lost a batch after the primary cooled a bit and pulled tap water in. I put star san in now. There are so many variables.

__________________
ghosthef is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-10-2012, 07:25 PM   #6
Revvy
Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Revvy's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: "Detroitish" Michigan
Posts: 40,789
Liked 2659 Times on 1604 Posts
Likes Given: 3448

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiroux View Post
but now, 1 week after bottling.. this little leather flavor again, it's ''carbonated'', but the foam goes completly in 5 seconds... no body, no sweetness...
This is your problem.....You're tasting your beers at only one week, calling any green flavor issues infections, and thinking because it gushed it's infected and NOT the the co2 hasn't gone fully into solution.
At 7 days in the bottle they're NOT over carbonated, OR INFECTED You've opened them TOO SOON. The co2 is in the headpsace and NOT in solution.

We get thsi all the time from folks who open their bottles WAAAAAYYYYYYY early.

If you watch Poindexter's video on time lapsed carbonation, you will see that in many instances, before a beer is carbed it my gush, that's not from infection, or mixing of sugars, but because the co2 hasn't evened out- it hasn't been pulled fully into the beer. Think of it as there's a lot of co2 being generated and most of it is in the headspace, not in the beer, so there's still "over pressure" in the bottle, so it gushes when it is opened.

But when the beer is truly carbed it all evens out, across the bottles.


The 3 weeks at 70 degrees, that we recommend is the minimum time it takes for average gravity beers to carbonate and condition. Higher grav beers take longer.

Stouts and porters have taken me between 6 and 8 weeks to carb up..I have a 1.090 Belgian strong that took three months to carb up.

And just because a beer is carbed doesn't mean it still doesn't taste like a$$ and need more time for the off flavors to condition out.

This is your other issue, the whole "leather" or whatver.....You have green beer.

Temp and gravity are the two factors that contribute to the time it takes to carb beer.

Everything you need to know about carbing and conditioning, can be found here Of Patience and Bottle Conditioning. With emphasis on the word, "patience."

Additionally once the three weeks or so has passed, chiling them down for a few days (not just a few hours or over night as most new brewers want to do ) will help the carbonation settle.

Don't touch your beers til AT LEAST THREE WEEKS IN THE BOTTLE...And more than likely you'll find that your beer is carbed fine, and tastes great.
__________________

Like my snazzy new avatar? Get Sons of Zymurgy swag, here, and brew with the best.

Revvy's one of the cool reverends. He has a Harley and a t-shirt that says on the back "If you can read this, the bitch was Raptured. - Madman

I gotta tell ya, just between us girls, that Revvy is HOT. Very tall, gorgeous grey hair and a terrific smile. He's very good looking in person, with a charismatic personality... he drives like a ****ing maniac! - YooperBrew

Revvy is online now
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-10-2012, 10:07 PM   #7
Tiroux
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Thurso, Québec
Posts: 465
Liked 8 Times on 7 Posts

Default

Ok. I kept the other infected beers. After 2 months, it's just ever worst...
They all have been 2-3 weeks at the right temp, then place in the cold room for days and weeks.
Anyway, I hope you are right. I kept every bottle, because a part of me was saying just like you...

__________________
Tiroux is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-11-2012, 04:58 PM   #8
eastoak
Senior Member
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: oakland, california
Posts: 3,138
Liked 143 Times on 135 Posts
Likes Given: 79

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghosthef View Post
Are you using a plastic primary? Scratches can get bacteria in there and are very hard to get out. How about your oxygen lock? Are you filling it with tap water? I lost a batch after the primary cooled a bit and pulled tap water in. I put star san in now. There are so many variables.
not true and certainly not helpful to someone who is just starting out with brewing. this is mostly paranoia that gets repeated over and over. can a scratch harbor bacteria? yes. are all of the random little scratches almost certainly found in every plastic bucket hard to sanitize? no.
__________________
eastoak is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-11-2012, 05:07 PM   #9
eastoak
Senior Member
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: oakland, california
Posts: 3,138
Liked 143 Times on 135 Posts
Likes Given: 79

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiroux View Post
Ok. I kept the other infected beers. After 2 months, it's just ever worst...
They all have been 2-3 weeks at the right temp, then place in the cold room for days and weeks.
Anyway, I hope you are right. I kept every bottle, because a part of me was saying just like you...
it takes time to learn your process and get your beer where you want it to be and if you quit it will certainly not get better. some people start making great beer from the first batch and others end up dumping a few batches. what all successful brewers have in common is not a secret, they just kept brewing. that simple.

i don't fixate on a bad batch, i make a decision; set it aside for later if i feel that time will save the beer or dump it and don't repeat the mistake. all the while i keep brewing other beers. learning from your mistakes is the most important ingredient in brewing (even though exactly what the mistake was can sometimes be a mystery).
__________________
eastoak is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-11-2012, 05:14 PM   #10
duboman
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Glenview, IL
Posts: 5,807
Liked 429 Times on 402 Posts
Likes Given: 199

Default

Your description definitely sounds like oxidation which is due to the introduction of oxygen in the process somewhere post fermentation so you need to evaluate your transfer methods and avoid an splashing or rough handling of the beer going into the bottles.

As per Revvy, you are sampling way to early to get a good evaluation of your beer-patience, let the beer condition and carbonate properly.

If the head disappears that rapidly it could be as simple as dirty glassware, any sort of soap residue or dishwasher residue can kill the head instantly. Clean your glassware with some simple soap and water and rinse thoroughly or use some vinegar and water solution as well for a nice squeaky clean glass and see if the head retention improves.



__________________
Nothing Left to do but smile and drink beer.....

The Commune Brewing Company-Perfecting the "art" of beer since 2010
duboman is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Infection help. 2nd batch. Same infection. What now? MedicMang Fermentation & Yeast 20 03-27-2014 06:28 PM
Yeast Infection Has An Infection?! PurpleJeepXJ Fermentation & Yeast 6 08-14-2011 05:13 PM
Top Drop (Drop top clone) lactose? hop substitution? brando Recipes/Ingredients 0 02-12-2010 08:36 PM
Drop out. Orfy Extract Brewing 10 11-15-2005 08:11 PM