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Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Equipment/Sanitation > Recirculating Mash Question
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Old 02-08-2012, 05:00 AM   #21
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If I had a lot analysis handy, I would be happy to provide it. Barring that, how about an article by the late, great Greg Noonan? Scroll down to "starch conversion".

http://brewingtechniques.com/bmg/noonan.html

You could also always call Briess or Great Western and ask for a sample Lot Analysis...
Thanks for that article!!! good stuff there!
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Old 02-08-2012, 03:05 PM   #22
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I used to do the same thing most do and mash for an hour or so, but after hearing otherwise I tested and went from an hour to 45 min, then to 30 min, then to 20 min. I might be able to swing shorter but by the time I'm ready to recirc 20 min has passed. long and short is if you feel comfortable or curious try it and see. happy mashing :-)
We used Briess when I was there (and they still do). I was also surprised that there was residual starches at 60 minutes but to go as low as 15 minutes, I'm very surprised. I think that the maltsters saccharification test is lab work in a controlled environment, and not "real life" brewery where grain absorption and the grist mixing time would play in the part.

20 min mash + 20 min recirc gives you a total of 40 min mash btw.

I'm doing a couple batches this wk-end, gonna check what I see @ 20 minutes.

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Old 11-13-2012, 06:15 PM   #23
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I bet careful attention to Mash pH is warranted if you wanted to realize a 15 minute mash that includes complete saccarification.

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Old 11-13-2012, 06:29 PM   #24
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Very intriguing, may have to try slowly shortening mash time and see if it effects our efficiency at all. We have been really overkilling it too, cause we mash in, set 60 min timer, recirculate about 15-20, and then begin to lauter.

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Old 11-13-2012, 06:46 PM   #25
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It has already been touched on but looking at a lab mash that determines DBFG to be 10-15 minutes doesn't say anything about a real world mash, especially since it doesn't specify the sacc rest temp. They grind it to a powder consistency that would never lauter in a brewhouse and it could be at 160F to get it done faster. If you take a typical crush many brewers get from homebrewshops, mash at 155 for 45 minutes, and lauter it, I would bet that smashing a bit of leftover grist would yield a positive starch test. I'm not arguing that you can't get full conversion in 20 minutes with a fine crush, good pH, running a higher end rest temp, and a grist with high average DP. It's just misleading to newer brewers who don't fully understand all those constraints.

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Old 03-07-2013, 05:05 AM   #26
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Maybe a newbie question.
For 20 min mash then 20 min recirculating, can the mash time be shortened to 5 or 10 minutes? I'm wondering what would be happening in the first 20 min of non recirc that would not be happening during the recirc.

If the first 20 min was for starch to be converted, wouldn't the recirculating aid in conversion through agitation?

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Old 03-07-2013, 04:14 PM   #27
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Maybe a newbie question.
For 20 min mash then 20 min recirculating, can the mash time be shortened to 5 or 10 minutes? I'm wondering what would be happening in the first 20 min of non recirc that would not be happening during the recirc.

If the first 20 min was for starch to be converted, wouldn't the recirculating aid in conversion through agitation?

IDK... I'd still do a 60 min mash. 90 mins if the temps are in the 140's

Maybe I will try a shorter mash and see how it goes. I don't think 5 -10 mins is enough time. It takes time for the water to penetrate the larger grits and gelatinize the starches so they can be converted. Also, the temp has an effect on the speed of the enzymes. If it was ground to a fine dust and the temps were high, I could see it getting done in 5-10 mins but that is not how I brew. I'd never be able to lauder such a fine mash.
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Old 03-07-2013, 06:17 PM   #28
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If you DO a short mash, make sure to test for conversion, and make sure that test is at least a 2 minute mix with iodine. I've seen conversion tests fail at 60-minutes, but sometimes it takes 2 minutes for the mix to react.

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Old 03-07-2013, 07:02 PM   #29
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So I guess the test would be to mash a few minutes, starch test, even it it fails, start recirculating, and retest in 20.

Once conversion is done ( starch test negative) is mashing done? Is there anything else that a longer mash accomplishes?

Conversion, clarity.. Anything else?

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Old 03-07-2013, 07:04 PM   #30
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So I guess the test would be to mash a few minutes, starch test, even it it fails, start recirculating, and retest in 20.

Once conversion is done ( starch test negative) is mashing done? Is there anything else that a longer mash accomplishes?

Conversion, clarity.. Anything else?
at lower temps the longer chain sugars are broken down further and the wort is made more and more fermentable.
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