Questions about March Pumps answered by the Factory!

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Stealthcruiser said:
Any more input there, Walter?
The case looks pristine, and no accumulation of wort within.

I don't remember exactly when I got it, can you tell it's age by the serial #, ( above), perhaps?
Click to expand...



Allrighty then ,Walter.................It comes apart on my next trip to my shop, unless ya' might have more input.................:mug:
 
Hi, I have 3 TE-5S-MD pumps that I bought used off ebay, and I have problems With two of them. The stainless impeller have some sort of carbon that is broken, and the ceramic axle is broken.

The parts needed to repair (New impeller and axle) is very expensive, Could I use a polysulphone impeller on these pumps instead? What parts do I need to fix them that is least expensive?

I use the pumps for transferring hot water from the HLT to the mash tun, transferring from the mash tun to the boiler and for whirlpooling/chilling the last 15 minutes of the boil.

I also use a TE-5S-MD for spinning a spray ball for cleaning a conical fermenter With hot water.

Thanks for Your help

Hansen
 
Sorry guys....i'm not sure why i don't get any notifications on new postings anymore...
Stealthcruiser......the serial number tells me when it was built (month/year) but that's not necessarily what we go by since inventory does end to sit on some distributors shelves. If you can, send me back the pump and let us look at at....give me or Wayne a call and get an RMA# so we can keep track of it and i'll see whats going on with it for you.

uglefisk.....you can repair the carbon bushing if you happen to have an arbor press at home....if not then get in touch with one of our distributors and have him coordinate the repair...you can send the impellers back to us direct and we can repair and send them back to you but we don't sell/deal direct so it would need to go through a distributor....
Yes you can use the plastic impeller if you like it has a list price of $57
the carbon impeller bushing is $34
and if you want to change to a stainless shaft instead of the ceramic you can as well....thats got a list of $30 (part#0939-0003-1000)
 
WalterAtMarchPump said:
Sorry guys....i'm not sure why i don't get any notifications on new postings anymore...
Stealthcruiser......the serial number tells me when it was built (month/year) but that's not necessarily what we go by since inventory does end to sit on some distributors shelves. If you can, send me back the pump and let us look at at....give me or Wayne a call and get an RMA# so we can keep track of it and i'll see whats going on with it for you.

uglefisk.....you can repair the carbon bushing if you happen to have an arbor press at home....if not then get in touch with one of our distributors and have him coordinate the repair...you can send the impellers back to us direct and we can repair and send them back to you but we don't sell/deal direct so it would need to go through a distributor....
Yes you can use the plastic impeller if you like it has a list price of $57
the carbon impeller bushing is $34
and if you want to change to a stainless shaft instead of the ceramic you can as well....thats got a list of $30 (part#0939-0003-1000)
Click to expand...


Thank You, Sir!

I'll box it up this week, and try to mail it out Friday.

Got a number I could call for said " RMA" ?

You can private message it, if you wish.
 
Wayne must be stressin out as of late.....may be the blue moon coming this friday.....if he gives you any lip about returning it to the distributor or such just send it back here to my attention. ;)
 
No nothing out of the ordinary here....phones are working just fine....i have had issues from the east coast before though....its weird...i've tried calling our regional sales manager a few times and got busy signals...and notice of the line being disconnected even!! then you call again right after that and it goes right through! I don't know......try calling the 800 number and see if that works....800-323-0791
 
Got through around 10:15, got put on hold while trying to round up Wayne, then transferred to someones else voice mail.
Called back, Secretary said Wayne was in a meeting, so she sent me to his voice mail.
Left a detailed message, no reply as of yet.

PM sent to you as of 5 minutes from now.

Thanks!
 
WalterAtMarchPump said:
Sorry guys....i'm not sure why i don't get any notifications on new postings anymore...
Stealthcruiser......the serial number tells me when it was built (month/year) but that's not necessarily what we go by since inventory does end to sit on some distributors shelves. If you can, send me back the pump and let us look at at....give me or Wayne a call and get an RMA# so we can keep track of it and i'll see whats going on with it for you.

uglefisk.....you can repair the carbon bushing if you happen to have an arbor press at home....if not then get in touch with one of our distributors and have him coordinate the repair...you can send the impellers back to us direct and we can repair and send them back to you but we don't sell/deal direct so it would need to go through a distributor....
Yes you can use the plastic impeller if you like it has a list price of $57
the carbon impeller bushing is $34
and if you want to change to a stainless shaft instead of the ceramic you can as well....thats got a list of $30 (part#0939-0003-1000)
Click to expand...

Thanks Walter, do I need any washers or anything when using a stainless shaft? And what is the part number of the carbon bushing?
 
nothing changes inside the pump besides what you have right now....you re-use all the same stuff.
Stainless shaft is (0939-0003-1000)
Carbon Bushing is (0150---63-1000)
 
WalterAtMarchPump said:
nothing changes inside the pump besides what you have right now....you re-use all the same stuff.
Stainless shaft is (0939-0003-1000)
Carbon Bushing is (0150---63-1000)
Click to expand...

Thanks, I have ordered this for 3 pumps. It would be very expensive to send the impellers for repair in the U.S. from Norway, so I will try to install them myself.

I found your article http://www.marchpump.com/bushings-replacement-mag-drive-pumps/ nice one!

I don't have an arbor press but I was thinking of using a vise to fit the bushing, and protect it with wood between the vise and the bushing.

Do you think this will work? Does it require alot of pressure to install?

Thanks!
 
you could do it with a vise at home....only thing i would do if you do it yourself is to make a support fixture for the bushing....what we use here is a spindle that fits the bore hole like the shaft would and with a wide face to support the bushing as its being pressed into the impeller....this way the pressure is distributed evenly across the bushing face and the shaft will help keep the bushing from trying to collapse as its being pressed in....

IMG_6916.jpg
 
Thank you Walter, replacing the carbon bushing using a vise worked like a charm, now I can finally use these extremely nice pumps again :)

I used the stainless axle and a flat washer to distributed the pressure while inserting the bushing.

WalterAtMarchPump said:
you could do it with a vise at home....only thing i would do if you do it yourself is to make a support fixture for the bushing....what we use here is a spindle that fits the bore hole like the shaft would and with a wide face to support the bushing as its being pressed into the impeller....this way the pressure is distributed evenly across the bushing face and the shaft will help keep the bushing from trying to collapse as its being pressed in....
Click to expand...
 
Walter,

Can you recommend a pump very similar to the 809 or whatever pump most of the guys here are using but with 3phase input? I'm thinking about using a single pump on a 3-tier system but think i might want to use VFD control so i can vary the pump speed. I did find some large pumps in the chemical section, but they seemed too large.

Another option would be buy a pump head and mount on an appropriate 3phase standard motor. I'm not opposed to that either.
 
We unfortunately don't have any small pumps in 3 phase.....problem is the size of the motors when you get into 3 phase.
Smallest pump that starts in 3 phase would be our series 5.5 pumps that can give you 30gpm...
Another option would be to find a PWM (Pulse width modulator)....that's the only driver i know of that can speed control a single phase motor....but they get expensive
 
Ok, if there's no small ones, how linear is flow at lower speeds? Any pump curves? VFD would typically run down to maybe 20-30hz so pump flow at half speed would need to be known. if no info is available, i might look at a pump head and custom machining to a 3phase motor of my choice.
 
WalterAtMarchPump said:
We unfortunately don't have any small pumps in 3 phase.....problem is the size of the motors when you get into 3 phase.
Smallest pump that starts in 3 phase would be our series 5.5 pumps that can give you 30gpm...
Another option would be to find a PWM (Pulse width modulator)....that's the only driver i know of that can speed control a single phase motor....but they get expensive
Click to expand...

I have successfully been using a SCR phase angle speed controller (sometimes called a router speed controller) to reduce the flow of my (not March) pump. Can be found for cheap on Ebay. From my research this is the typical way to speed control a PSC motor. Only issue is it is not very linear, and to get down to really low flows the motor is running quite slow and I am concerned that the fan will not be cooling it enough.
Also I have seen some DIY circuits for SCR speed controllers that include EMF feedback to ensure the motor speed stays constant regardless of the load on the motor.
 
86turbodsl said:
Ok, if there's no small ones, how linear is flow at lower speeds? Any pump curves? VFD would typically run down to maybe 20-30hz so pump flow at half speed would need to be known. if no info is available, i might look at a pump head and custom machining to a 3phase motor of my choice.
Click to expand...

We don't get into curves for VFD's as there would potentially be hundreds of different ones depending on where the vfd would be set. And its not linear either for our pumps.....too many variables will affect the output of the pump....pipe size...weight/viscosity of the liquid....head height..etc...

I you want to adapt your own motor i can supply you with the drawings of the motor bracket so you can have it adapted to what you want to use....just email me. :)
 
mattd2 said:
I have successfully been using a SCR phase angle speed controller (sometimes called a router speed controller) to reduce the flow of my (not March) pump. Can be found for cheap on Ebay. From my research this is the typical way to speed control a PSC motor. Only issue is it is not very linear, and to get down to really low flows the motor is running quite slow and I am concerned that the fan will not be cooling it enough.
Also I have seen some DIY circuits for SCR speed controllers that include EMF feedback to ensure the motor speed stays constant regardless of the load on the motor.
Click to expand...

Well as you have come to find out....the slower the motor turns it wont cool itself off as well and can potentially overheat....i guess you could add a small fan from a PC or something along those lines to help with cooling.

Also the other issue (and im not sure if this would be an issue) but these are not PSC type motors (Permanent Split Capacitor) if you were to take this motor apart you will find there are no capacitors inside....no primary/secondary winding....and no centrifugal switch like a typical PSC motor would have.
These guys are more on the line of a shaded pole motor.
I "believe" (and i could be wrong on this) they are classified as a polyphase motor or a single phase two pole motor....
 
WalterAtMarchPump said:
Well as you have come to find out....the slower the motor turns it wont cool itself off as well and can potentially overheat....i guess you could add a small fan from a PC or something along those lines to help with cooling.

Also the other issue (and im not sure if this would be an issue) but these are not PSC type motors (Permanent Split Capacitor) if you were to take this motor apart you will find there are no capacitors inside....no primary/secondary winding....and no centrifugal switch like a typical PSC motor would have.
These guys are more on the line of a shaded pole motor.
I "believe" (and i could be wrong on this) they are classified as a polyphase motor or a single phase two pole motor....
Click to expand...

Yeah I was expecting the need for additional cooling at slow speeds similar to retrofitting a VSD to a DOL industrial motor will require an additional cooling fan.
I have avoided that by not reducing the speed below the point the motor is still getting airflow from the standard fan. But this limits me to not getting below 30% flow (roughly).
my understanding (but don't quote me) is phase angle control (TRIAC /SCR) will work with shaded pole motors as it is pretty much a different method for the same result - two windings with a slight phase shift from a single phase.
As I mentioned I'm not actually running a March 8** with this, rather a Iwaki knock-off.
 
Another question for Walter:

I have my march pump plumbed directly to a CFC for a CB20 setup:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showpost.php?p=1476607&postcount=3

I've run it a few times; and I get intermittent squeaks and it loses its prime. There are a number of factors working against me in this setup: the fact that the outlet of the kettle and the inlet of the pump are on the same plane; there are some loops in tubing in the plumbing; also the outlet valve controlling pump flow is located on the on the outlet side of the CFC and not directly next to the pump outlet. That being said; I really like this setup as I can just carry the unit around where I need it and plug it in (I use it for both my small electric and 10 gallon propane system).

Any hints on how to optimize this setup to prevent the pump from squeaking/losing prime? Also, would the intermittent squeaking be caused by a missing thrust washer? I'll be honest, I don't recall seeing one the last time I pulled it apart.

Any help would be great!
 
Wow that's cool...i've never seen anything like that before. I must say you guys get crafty :D

Besides opening up the pump to verify that the thrust washer is there, the only thing i can tell you to possibly change to help things would be to get a wooden block and raise the pump up enough to rotate the pump head so your inlet is at the bottom and outlet on top...that will help any air pass through the pump as easily as possible....other then that try and straighten out you inlet hoses as much as possible so not to trap any air in the high spots...everything else looks ok to me
 
WalterAtMarchPump said:
Wow that's cool...i've never seen anything like that before. I must say you guys get crafty :D

Besides opening up the pump to verify that the thrust washer is there, the only thing i can tell you to possibly change to help things would be to get a wooden block and raise the pump up enough to rotate the pump head so your inlet is at the bottom and outlet on top...that will help any air pass through the pump as easily as possible....other then that try and straighten out you inlet hoses as much as possible so not to trap any air in the high spots...everything else looks ok to me
Click to expand...

Thanks for the prompt reply. I like the idea of putting a block at the bottom so I can reorient the head for outlet=up, but then that would mean a significant high spot in the tubing from the pump outlet to the inlet of the chiller, and I'm not sure I could get it all to fit in the bucket.

I will play with it some more. Thanks again!
 
put a block in there just high enough to fit the orientation of the pump head so the outlet is pointing straight up at your face....put a 90* elbow on the inlet so its easier to plumb.....then you can add a "T" fitting on the outlet.....the side port goes to your chiller lines....the top port you can install a valve so you can easier purge the air out and your in business :)
 
WalterAtMarchPump said:
put a block in there just high enough to fit the orientation of the pump head so the outlet is pointing straight up at your face....put a 90* elbow on the inlet so its easier to plumb.....then you can add a "T" fitting on the outlet.....the side port goes to your chiller lines....the top port you can install a valve so you can easier purge the air out and your in business :)
Click to expand...


Just as a follow up: I finally pulled that pump in bucket assembly apart to look for the thrust washer. Found this:

2016-06-04%2014.29.52.jpg


Any idea what would have caused this? The washer looks thinned out and broken down.
 
I can't see the pic but mine was worn paper thin. Replaced it with a ss center inlet head and it's flawless once again
 
30Bones said:
I can't see the pic but mine was worn paper thin. Replaced it with a ss center inlet head and it's flawless once again
Click to expand...

Yeah, I didn't have time to mess around with the pic when I posted-but yeah, my washer is thinned down and paper-thin. Is this normal for this type of head? Should I consider this a consumable part?
 
Yeah its a wear item, but my pump is over 10 years old and that's the original head to my knowledge.
 
the washer can be considered a wear item but it depends on how its used....the reason it wears is because the impeller is getting sucked up against it....usually from a lack of fluid on the inlet side....like the piping being too small or too many 90*'s in the system, or a valve thats smaller on the ID then the tubing is.....something is restricting the liquid coming in. The pump will still work but instead of i being a transfer pump it has become a suction pump and mag-drives dont like that
 

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