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Old 04-27-2012, 04:59 PM   #331
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Originally Posted by l3asturd View Post
By the way, I got some thrust washers, and they seem to have helped, but I also reduced flow when approaching boiling temps to help with cavitation.

On another note, placing the pump motor below the pump head, in a vertical configuration, seems like a really bad idea to me. Unless you protected the motor, every drop falling from the head would be getting dangerously close to dripping inside the motor itself.

Unlikely anyone would want to mount the pump vertically though.
Mounting it with the motor on top is the first thought people have when mounting them verticaly...problem is you get an air pocket trapped in the rear housing and even though the pump head is pumping the back end is running dry. this cut away shows the pump head position if it was under the motor...




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Old 05-08-2012, 12:54 PM   #332
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I got a March TE-5S-MD-AM off ebay. Originally powered by an air motor (suffix AM). I fitted a 250w three-phase motor to run it on electric power.
Pump works great, and I plan to fit a VFD to throttle the pump in addition to the ball valve om the outlet.
Since I'm in Europe the motor is run at 50Hz, and it's a 2-pole so theoretically 3000 rpm. The pump is a very light load for the motor so i meashured the actual RPM's to very close to 3000.

My questiom is, how high RPM can i safely run the pump at? With the VFD i can turn up the frequency to way above 50 or 60Hz. And looking at the data for the Gast air motor it can be run higher.

Thanks in advance Walter (and others), it's great that you are on here!

pic shows the pump refitted with electic motor and a Iwaki MD-10 in front.





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Old 05-09-2012, 11:38 AM   #333
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I'm thrilled to have found this thread, I was about to cross my fingers and hope, but this is much better

I have 2 brand new 809 pumps, with stainless heads and 3/4" center inlets. These are part of a complete from-the-ground electric brewery build. Two weeks ago, I installed them and connected all the stainless fittings to them, followed by a wet test of PBW solution and then a thorough warm water flush. They are mounted like so:





Last night, I reached the point where I could wet test two of the new kettles, so I used the upper pump to move the contents of the 1st kettle to the second. When I turned on the pump, I was very surprised to see a significant amount of rust color in the hoses and the kettle. I disassembled the upper pump, and found rust staining, and noticeable rust formation on the un-polished interior surfaces. After cleaning, the head looks like this:



I had not yet run fluid through the lower pump, so I disassembled it as well. This is what I found inside, and let me just say I was NOT pleased:





What's going on here? It would appear that the un-polished surfaces inside the heads are corroding like mad. This is unacceptable, for something that has only ever moved water. My water is neither hard nor soft, it's totally middling. And I can leave water sitting in other stainless things for weeks on end with no ill effects.

I appreciate any response.

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Old 05-09-2012, 12:42 PM   #334
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Wow, that looks pretty yuk. I got a bit confused with what you had done, did you PBW both pumps or just the upper. Where did you buy these from? I would expect it to be a distributor issue (restocking "unused" pumps) than March actually shipping them like that.

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Old 05-09-2012, 12:50 PM   #335
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I wonder if there is a non-stainless piece in there somewhere that is rusting. If it is stainless doesn't removing all the rust prevent future rust if allowed to dry properly?

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Old 05-09-2012, 02:09 PM   #336
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Originally Posted by Protto View Post
I got a March TE-5S-MD-AM off ebay. Originally powered by an air motor (suffix AM). I fitted a 250w three-phase motor to run it on electric power.
Pump works great, and I plan to fit a VFD to throttle the pump in addition to the ball valve om the outlet.
Since I'm in Europe the motor is run at 50Hz, and it's a 2-pole so theoretically 3000 rpm. The pump is a very light load for the motor so i meashured the actual RPM's to very close to 3000.

My questiom is, how high RPM can i safely run the pump at? With the VFD i can turn up the frequency to way above 50 or 60Hz. And looking at the data for the Gast air motor it can be run higher.

Thanks in advance Walter (and others), it's great that you are on here!

pic shows the pump refitted with electic motor and a Iwaki MD-10 in front.

its hard to say....with the air motor we get that crazy curve due to the fact as you move to the left of the curve (against more head) the rpm's of the motor increase and can get some where in between 4000-4500rpm before the magnets de-couple, and thats why we get that 50' of head height out of the pump.....but thats with water...a heavier liquid will decouple the magnets at a lower rpm.
With electric motors they more or less stay at a constant rpm and dont go above 3450rpm. With your VFD you should be able to ramp it up to the same 4k+ rpms and get the same performace as the air motors...easiest thing to do is ramp it up till it decouples...turn it back a hair and mark it....shut the motor down and let the magnets re-align....then restart and it should be fine right there.
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Old 05-09-2012, 02:31 PM   #337
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cscade, i have no idea whats going on with your pump....the pump head itself is 316 stainless as is the shaft....there should be no reason for rust at all unless some foreign metalic (iron) material was stuck in there...considering the CNC that does the machining for these heads is a dedicated unit i cant see how there woud be anything in there from the factory. Is it possible you got something from the distributor that may have been previously used??? Or was there something harsh put through the pump for cleaning purposes?


heres something i got from one of our stainless suppliers:
Stainless does not "rust" as you think of regular steel rusting with a red oxide on the surface that flakes off. If you see red rust it is probably due to some iron particles that have contaminated the surface of the stainless steel and it is these iron particles that are rusting. Look at the source of the rusting and see if you can remove it from the surface.

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Old 05-09-2012, 04:05 PM   #338
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Walter, thanks for your reply. I'm confident the pumps are new. They came from MoreBeer, and were packed in factory boxes with expanding foam packing material. They also have nearly-sequential serial numbers, so they are definitely the same manufacturing run.

To be clear, each pump has been flushed with PBW solution at normal cleaning strength, then thoroughly rinsed with water, then left unattended for 2 weeks. No parts exterior to the pumps were in contact with the process that were not stainless or silicone.

If you look at the first close-up photo in my post above, you can see (in the output part of the housing) where the un-milled interior surface itself has rust speckles all over it. This is true everywhere un-milled surface was in contact with water.

I know stainless itself doesn't rust, but I know that once oxides are present on it's surface, they must be removed or they will damage the adjacent stainless. The way these heads are cast, there is no way for me to get at those surfaces to fully clean them.

The metal has been contaminated at some point before they reached my door it seems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WalterAtMarchPump View Post
cscade, i have no idea whats going on with your pump....the pump head itself is 316 stainless as is the shaft....there should be no reason for rust at all unless some foreign metalic (iron) material was stuck in there...considering the CNC that does the machining for these heads is a dedicated unit i cant see how there woud be anything in there from the factory. Is it possible you got something from the distributor that may have been previously used??? Or was there something harsh put through the pump for cleaning purposes?


heres something i got from one of our stainless suppliers:
Stainless does not "rust" as you think of regular steel rusting with a red oxide on the surface that flakes off. If you see red rust it is probably due to some iron particles that have contaminated the surface of the stainless steel and it is these iron particles that are rusting. Look at the source of the rusting and see if you can remove it from the surface.
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Old 05-09-2012, 04:09 PM   #339
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well i'm at a loss and to be honest its the first time I personaly have run across this in the 11yrs working here...send me back just the heads and i'll replace then for you now problem. shoot em a PM or email me at work: wwojcik @ marchpump dot com

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Old 05-09-2012, 05:55 PM   #340
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Walter got me all squared away, and worked with me on my particular situation. Great customer service. Thanks March!



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