Question concerning bottle sanitation and sanitizing in general

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
N

Nexus555

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2007
Messages
158
Reaction score
20
Location
Baton Rouge, LA
Hey guys, what's up? Well I'm only 1 1/2 week from bottling my first brew. So far I have 24 bottles. Still need 24, but I should be able to fix that by bottling day :p

My first question is concerning sanitizing the bottles. So far I've soaked them in soap and rinsed and scrubbed them with the bottle bursh. How do I go about sanitizing 48 of these suckers with ease? I've heard of filling a bath tub up with water and adding bleach. Would this not affect the taste? If this is not recommend, in which way would you suggest sanitizing them, and what agent would you use?

On my first brew I used One Step as a general sanitizer, but I found that some people argue it as a cleaning agent, not sanitizier. What agent would you recommend for all around sanitizing? I would like something that doesn't stain my plastic bucket or anything at that.. Also would this sanitizer also work for bottles?

Thanks!
 
Iodophor.

I started using StarSan, but I switched to iodine after reading this:

Bay Area Mashers Do Iodine

Today is my first time with Iodine. I'm racking two carboys to secondary and I'm already impressed. It's cheap, it doesn't foam, and it can also be used to test for conversion so that's one less thing you have to buy.
 
Thanks. Does Idophor stain the plastic fermenter? Also, can it be used to sanitize bottles, and if so, how do you go about doing it?
 
Our bottling day plan of attack involves taking clean bottles (i.e. no mold or cigarette butts in the bottom) and cramming as many as possible into a fermenter full of star-san, usually mixed a little extra strong. I also take my caps and put them (always sanitize extras) in a bowl of star-san as well. After about 10 minutes of soaking we scrub them out with a brush and put them on our bottling table and place a cap onto the top. We also siphon all the star san out to clean our siphon tubes, cane and wand.

By the time we've scrubbed all 50 or so, we start at the beginning of the line again and pour out the tablespoon or so of solution that has drained to the bottom of the bottle, place the cap back on the top, and keep it there until we bottle.

After the individual bottles are full, we allow the caps to sit on the top until the last bottle is filled, and then seal them with the capper. My theory behind that is possibly maybe just a little CO2 is formed (I know, probably not) that pushes out any oxygen that might be in the top of the bottle before it's sealed. Maybe? Maybe..

That's how we do it at Bottle Rocket Brewing, AKA, my kitchen.

kvh
 
Brewsmith said:
I use star-san. It's cheap and you can reuse it. And the foam doesn't bother me.
Click to expand...

Actually Starsan is more than twice as expensive as iodophor. I hear what you're saying, that it's still pretty cheap, I mean the difference is between 27.5 cents per gallon and 55 cents per gallon. I mean, really, who can't afford either one? It doesn't really matter. But Starsan is still twice as expensive. Just going off of northernbrewer's site, their largest sizes of each...

Iodophor costs twenty seven and a half cents per gallon of sanitizer. That's 1 oz per 10 gallons at the recommended dilution.

The bottle of Starsan costs a dollar more, contains an ounce less (32 vs. 33oz), and requires twice as much (1 oz for 5 gallons, recommended dilution).


I like starsan, it has it's uses. I think I prefer it for sanitizing little tubes and doodads, but when you're doing something like a carboy or a bunch of bottles, iodophor makes a lot more sense.
 
I'm old school. I use a weak bleach solution. Many, many batches and narry an issue.

I dunk all the bottles into my tub or sink, whatever you have. Make sure they fill and let soak for 15 minutes.

Then I give em a good force rinse of fresh water several times and shake upside down to make sure all cleanser is rinsed out.

Then I store them upside down in the carton or case I'm going to use for storage. I always line the bottom of the cardboard case with a couple layers of paper towels. Replace that paper every time.

Cover the case and store them someplace clean and they can keep like that for quite a while unti you're ready to bottle.
 
I use Iodophor, and yes it stains! Live with it of find something elts! But I have recently aquired a "Vinator Bottle Rinser"<-----Click and it is awsome..I have done 2 batches and they have turned out great...but remember you have to use clean bottles ..this just sanitizes them! I love it....10 min to do a batch of bottles!
 
After going through the hassle of sanitizing everything else, I didn't look forward to sanitizing bottles on bottling day. Soooo, I take the easy way out. After washing and letting the bottles dry, I cap them with aluminum foil and put them away. The day before bottling, I heat them in the oven. Half an hour at 350 and cool. I can do 1 case plus per load, so 2 loads does them all. I just pull the foil cap before bottling. Very simple and effective. You could do everything the same day and not even have to dry the bottles, but this allows me to spread my work load over time.
 
Im bottling tonight. After they I clean my bottles with Oxyclean, I just run them through the dishwasher on hot with heated dry and NO SOAP. I actually run the dishwasher rinse cycle once with no soap to clean out any residue.

Then just bottle using the open door on the dishwasher.
 
Toot said:
Actually Starsan is more than twice as expensive as iodophor. I hear what you're saying, that it's still pretty cheap...
Click to expand...

... but if you're re-using the Star-San....

In any case, I agree with your basic point - they're both cheap enough where to me, it doesn't make a lot of sense to mess around with the alternatives. It's well-estalished that both Iodophor and Star-San do the job very effectively and very cost-effectively; either is a good choice.
 
cpbergie said:
Im bottling tonight. After they I clean my bottles with Oxyclean, I just run them through the dishwasher on hot with heated dry and NO SOAP. I actually run the dishwasher rinse cycle once with no soap to clean out any residue.

Then just bottle using the open door on the dishwasher.
Click to expand...

That *should* be fine, I've done less sanitary things with bottling and had it work JUST FINE.

However - make sure the bottles are cool before you bottle. The temperature change and all that comes with it will be problematic if you put cold beer in hot glass and then seal it.

kvh
 
hialtitude said:
I like the idea raceskier. How long do the bottles take to cool?
Click to expand...

It's probably best to let them cool a couple hours in the closed oven. Moving them quickly to cooler (contaminated?) air could possibly let the cooling air in the bottle suck up some nasties past the foil cap.
 
I'm actually pretty lucky. I own a commercial bakery that produces and sells wholesale cookies. I brew and bottle on weekends in the production area.

I have a Douglas UTM-10 commercial pan and utensil washer/sanitizer.

UTM10.jpg


I can fit 4 cases of 12 oz bottles in it. It has a 4 minute wash at 160 degrees followed by a 2 minute rinse at 180 degrees. I use straight water and run 3 cycles in a row and then rinse with cool water using a carboy washer.

I also wash carboys, 5 gallon buckets, keggle, and any utensils in it. I also am old school and use a mild bleach sanitiser. 1/2 tbsp per gallon. I never have had any contamination issues with brewing or botteling.
 
Cookiebaggs said:
I'm actually pretty lucky. I own a commercial bakery that produces and sells wholesale cookies. I brew and bottle on weekends in the production area.

I have a Douglas UTM-10 commercial pan and utensil washer/sanitizer.

UTM10.jpg


I can fit 4 cases of 12 oz bottles in it. It has a 4 minute wash at 160 degrees followed by a 2 minute rinse at 180 degrees. I use straight water and run 3 cycles in a row and then rinse with cool water using a carboy washer.

I also wash carboys, 5 gallon buckets, keggle, and any utensils in it. I also am old school and use a mild bleach sanitiser. 1/2 tbsp per gallon. I never have had any contamination issues with brewing or botteling.
Click to expand...

I want one of these!
 
I've been using bleach in a plastic trash can on a picnic bench in the back yard. 20 gallons cost um... a nickel? Sink all 50 at once. For days, if need be, with the lid on. As long as it still smells like a swimming pool when you open the lid, it's sanitary.

I just lately found in the back yard a huge rubbermaid storage bin. The trash barrel was hard to reach to the botttom. Now I can work at table high, and sink the bottles with a milk crate. I leave the crate in there, right side up, with it's bottom submerged. Then when I'm ready to bottle, I drain the bottles and put them in the santized milk crate upside down to drain. It holds 38 bottles. I can cover the crate full with a clean towel, hold it snuggly on the ends, and flip the whole mess over onto my bottling table. 38 no-rinsed bottles ready to fill. For 5 cents. No bottle tree needed. That huge , low tub is great for soaking the auto-syphon, hose, and all those other acoutrements too. I suppose a plastic trash bag in a card board box would do in a pinch. And collapse for storage between batchs.

My only probelm is that the grass don't seem to grow. I think I've sanitized my dirt. So now I leave the tub open for several days to evaporate the chlorine before watering the petunias.
 
I use a bottle tree and rinser like Fire Travels was talking about. I can sanitize and then dry a batch's worth of bottles in about 10 minutes. It'll run you a few bucks but it definitely makes bottling easier
 
After reading all of the replies on this issue, I thought I would throw in my $0.04. I am sure I haven't been brewing as long as some of you, but I was quite suprised to only see three or so replies saying to "use a weak bleach solution". This is what I do, and I haven't had an issue yet. As mentioned, bleach is dirt cheap, doesn't stain, and rinses out of glass quite easily with the carboy rinser. I know it comes out quite easy as I am a microbiologist and we grow cultures in flasks that were soaked in bleach and then rinsed. Bleach is an excellent sanitizer, if not the best in MHO. As the last post mentioned, I use a giant rubbermaid filled with 15 gallons of water/bleach solution. I put the clean, rinsed bottles into the rubbermaid in the morning before work, come home, rinse with carboy rinser, and stack them in an empty, clean dishwasher (very convenient for those who don't have room for a bottle tree). Proceed with filling when ready. As long as your bottles are cleaned/rinsed after opening and pouring, this should be sufficient. Hell, I would be willing to bet a case of homebrew that even uncleaned bottles done in this same fashion would yield uncontaminated results. That is how confident I am in bleach and its bacterial-killing methods.
But, to each their own. As said so often in this forum, go with what works for you.
 
I used to use bleach myself and still maintain that bleach is an excellent and cheap solution.

However, you'll find fairly a fairly rabid cadre of homebrewers who go off the deep end about the shortcomings of bleach. Sometimes they are downright rude about it, discouraging people from piping up.
 
Why is there such a "hatred" for bleach? What are these shortcomings? Is it in its ability to sterilize or does it have something to do with residual bleach left in the bottles?

Kornkob- You say you "used" to use bleach? Why did you stop? What are you using now? (you may have already responded to this thread about what you use, sorry if I am asking you again)
 
Bleach is good stuff it just requires the extra rinsing step and then you have to be sure that whatever you're rinsing with is also sanitized.
 
I think the problems with bleach are caused by it's cheapness. It's so cheap that folks use waaaay tooo much. Then, since it is a "no rinse sanitizer" if used sparingly, they don't rinse and leave tooo much in the bottles.

At he restaurant supply/big box place the other day, I read the label on a $23 bottle of "Bar Glass Sanitizer", er whatever brand. It is basically chlorine powder. Directions were "1/4 oz for 4 gallons in the last rinse sink". Not much needed.

Plus, chlorine may be bad for stainless, so the big breweries don't use it. My own biggest screw up was to leave a stainless false bottom in a strong bleach solution. It 'oxidized' it white, and made a couple batchs of metalic beer. I replaced it with a fresh braid instead.

Hey, the bleach probs may be the source of some of the myths about aluminum. Since the big guys can't use bleach in their stainless, they use some other caustic that eats aluminum. So, since they can't use AL, some think neither should we ???
 
I think you hit the nail on the head. People tend to you use way too much bleach for sterilizing. Working in a microbiology lab has given me some knowledge on this, and I can attest that bleach works well in very, very minute quantities. Quite potent!
I never knew people didn't rinse it though. I have always rinsed and will continue, no matter how much time it consumes or how much of a nuisance it is. Using the facts from above, you can see why rinsing is important. Trace amounts of bleach will kill the yeast, and quite quickly I imagine. And in terms of rinsing with something sterile, hot water (the hottest you can get from a tap) will satisfy that. I can say fairly confidently that bacteria and whatnot is not growing inside a water heater, unless they are thermophilic bacteria (i.e. ones found in hot springs and heat vents in the earth). Of course, if you had these type of bacteria, they wouldn't be able to grow at room temperature then.
 
Well, here's what I do, and I'd be interested to know if anyone sees any potential problems with it:

As I get new bottles I wash them in the dishwasher and keep them in the "brewery" until bottling time. About an hour or two before I bottle, I make a couple gallon solution of OneStep in the bottling bucket and rinse out all the bottles as well as all the other equipment for bottling (caps, tubes, etc). From there, I finish cleaning the bottling bucket with the solution and voila!

My only concern is that the solution might become "contaminated" from so much cleaning, but I have no idea if that's a rational concern.
 
That sounds pretty darn sanitary to me. I do something similar - my dishwasher has a sanitize setting, which just seems to be a hot steaming after the rinse. So as I collect bottles, I just rinse them out good with hot water and cap them with foil. Then, the night before bottling day, I put them all neck down in the dishwasher with a Tbsp or 2 of Five Star PBW cleaner. Then, on bottling day, I put the bottling bucket right above the dishwasher, and go to town with the caps sanitized in starsan. Has been working great so far.
 
Nexus555 said:
On my first brew I used One Step as a general sanitizer, but I found that some people argue it as a cleaning agent, not sanitizier. What agent would you recommend for all around sanitizing? I would like something that doesn't stain my plastic bucket or anything at that.. Also would this sanitizer also work for bottles?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

On a contrary note - keep using OneStep. It's works pretty good as sanitizer. Many people here including myself have been using it for a long time and have perfect result with it.
 
gERgMan said:
Why is there such a "hatred" for bleach? What are these shortcomings? Is it in its ability to sterilize or does it have something to do with residual bleach left in the bottles?

Kornkob- You say you "used" to use bleach? Why did you stop? What are you using now? (you may have already responded to this thread about what you use, sorry if I am asking you again)
Click to expand...

The shortcomigns--- people have already largely hit on those (and the solution to most of the shortcomings--- don't use so much damn bleach)

I use StarSan these days. There were a variety of reasons for changing. It started out as an experiement. Then I found another use for it (I make up a bottle of it for the food service area of a convention I help run) and eventually fell in love with the bubbles, to be honest. I like being able to tell if I've sanitized something (and am certain it has STAYED sanitary) by looking over and seeing the layer of bubbles on top.

Someone here (Dude, maybe?) also said that StarSan breaks down into components that are relatively harmless, unlike chorine, and my experience in dumping sani water in the back yard proves this out--- I no longer get grass that doesn't grow properly.

It's a little thing but I also like the bottle it comes in with the integrated measure device. It makes it really easy to mix up a batch. That it is shelf stable when mixed is nice too-- I can keep some made up for sanitation in other projects as well.

I used to argue with the anti-bleach set but, frankly, it got to be a full time job and made it less fun to be here at HBT. So I stopped.

Boittom line for me is this: Homebrewers who are social enough to show up at a forum or a club meeting tend to, in my experience, get way too obsessive about sanitation. You can get reasonably consistent results without the obessssive sanitation most frequently called for in discussions about sanitation.

I come from a family of homebrewers that has been doing this a long time adn I have seen or personally been involved with a laundry list of unsanitary practices that didn't destroy the beer. I put my bath toy in the wort. I watched the dog drink right out of the bucket. I forgot to sanitize a carboy. Yet my beer didnt' go south. Beer is pretty hardy stuff during that initial roiling ferment. Yeasties don't much like the competition and infections don't much like alcohol.

I'd have to say that maybe we need to modify the age old saying:

Relax, even about sanitation, don't worry and have a home brew.
 
My local brew shop suggests cleaning and sanitizing bottles by filling up a clean dishwasher with bottles (upside-down on the pegs) and running it on the hottest setting with a capful of bleach.
 
After I finish pouring a homebrew in a glass, I rinse it out thoroughly with hot water from my sink (30 seconds at the most) then I put it in my brew room. Come bottling day, I fill the tub with water and a few capfuls of Iodophor. I dip all the bottles in my tub and let them sit for about 15 or 20 minutes while I get my bottling bucket ready for the process. Then, I sit next to the drain it and pull one bottle out at a time. I empty the iodophor solution, rinse real quick with clean tap water, shake vigorously upside down then fill with beer... then the next one, etc., etc. I haven't had a problem yet.. after 8 batches.

Most people say to dry first, but the 2 or 3 drops of water still in the bottle when I put the beer in hasn't hurt my beer 1 bit.
 
kornkob said:
The shortcomigns--- people have already largely hit on those (and the solution to most of the shortcomings--- don't use so much damn bleach)

I use StarSan these days. There were a variety of reasons for changing. It started out as an experiement. Then I found another use for it (I make up a bottle of it for the food service area of a convention I help run) and eventually fell in love with the bubbles, to be honest. I like being able to tell if I've sanitized something (and am certain it has STAYED sanitary) by looking over and seeing the layer of bubbles on top.

Someone here (Dude, maybe?) also said that StarSan breaks down into components that are relatively harmless, unlike chorine, and my experience in dumping sani water in the back yard proves this out--- I no longer get grass that doesn't grow properly.

It's a little thing but I also like the bottle it comes in with the integrated measure device. It makes it really easy to mix up a batch. That it is shelf stable when mixed is nice too-- I can keep some made up for sanitation in other projects as well.

I used to argue with the anti-bleach set but, frankly, it got to be a full time job and made it less fun to be here at HBT. So I stopped.

Boittom line for me is this: Homebrewers who are social enough to show up at a forum or a club meeting tend to, in my experience, get way too obsessive about sanitation. You can get reasonably consistent results without the obessssive sanitation most frequently called for in discussions about sanitation.

I come from a family of homebrewers that has been doing this a long time adn I have seen or personally been involved with a laundry list of unsanitary practices that didn't destroy the beer. I put my bath toy in the wort. I watched the dog drink right out of the bucket. I forgot to sanitize a carboy. Yet my beer didnt' go south. Beer is pretty hardy stuff during that initial roiling ferment. Yeasties don't much like the competition and infections don't much like alcohol.

I'd have to say that maybe we need to modify the age old saying:

Relax, even about sanitation, don't worry and have a home brew.
Click to expand...


Korn....this gets my nomination for one of the best posts I've ever read. Great Job. :rockin:

loop
 
I am about a week out from bottling, i was under the imprecation that putting clean bottles in the dishwasher on the heat cycle was good enough, is this not true?
 
Ryanh1801 said:
I am about a week out from bottling, i was under the imprecation that putting clean bottles in the dishwasher on the heat cycle was good enough, is this not true?
Click to expand...

only if the bottles are very, very clean on the inside to begin with. it is very difficult for a lot of water to get shot up inside each bottle when it is in the dishwasher.

I do it this way, I've never had a problem. There are many people here who would not do that. It is a matter of personal choice/preferance.


loop
 
Do you have to dry the bottles after sanitizing?
How long can you wait in between sanitizing and bottling?
 
ecarpenter said:
Do you have to dry the bottles after sanitizing?
How long can you wait in between sanitizing and bottling?
Click to expand...


I put them in the dishwasher for the "final cleaning" the dishwasher has a drying feature and they come out very dry and very, very hot to the touch.
I use them as soon as I can, when they are cooled off. You don't want to wait too long after sanitizing to bottle. (note...the dishwasher is not for sanitizing...only for rinsing and drying)

loop
 
This is what I do:
For each batch of beer I make up 5 gal of star-san for the entire process. SO I use it to sanitize everything on brewday, then on racking, then on bottling day. So I use it sparingly which saves me money.
After drinking a bottle of my beer, I rinse with hot water and check the bottom to see I got everything. When it comes time to bottle, I put the bottles in my bucket of used Star-San for a couple minutes and then take them out, drain them and set them on the counter. I soak my bottling equipment and transfer to my bottling bucket. I also soak my caps in some star san. I fill about 10-12 bottles then throw caps on them, and repeat until it's done. No washing, no scrubbing, no worries. I haven't had an issue yet. I keep all my empties in my garage upside down in their respective cases until it's time to use them again. The only time I wash is when they are new, or I see something.


Dan
 
Well I sure did learn a lot from this post!! I personally feel this should be moved to sticky. I know if you use the search button you can find a lot of posts concerning cleaning and sanitizing bottles, but if this were sticky, it would help a lot of new people. There really isn't much more to search for concerning this subject, it's all in this thread. This is by far the longest post I've seen concerning cleaning and sanitizing bottles. There is such a variety of techniques listed in this thread!!


Thanks everyone!
 

Similar threads

W
35% Hydrogen Peroxide for sanitation
Replies
22
Views
817
Peebee
Peebee
K
Sanitizing Oak Mixing Spoon/Paddle
Replies
7
Views
912
T Murph
T Murph
Rett03
Don’t know why I keep getting lacto infections
Replies
5
Views
990
MaxStout
MaxStout
MBuckBrewer
Have Apples Make Cider!
Replies
1
Views
465
MaxStout
MaxStout
W
Adding fruit juice to the secondary. How much? Do I need to sanitize?
Replies
8
Views
1K
BeerNsteadofH2O
BeerNsteadofH2O
InkBird 300

Latest posts

Back
Top