Get your HBT Growlers, Shirts and Membership before the Rush!


Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Equipment/Sanitation > Polypropylene couplings
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 05-01-2009, 07:03 PM   #1
Dwain
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Hill Country, TX
Posts: 1,137
Liked 5 Times on 5 Posts

Default Polypropylene couplings

My system is all stainless with the exception of the March Pump (when I hit the lottery, I'll get the stainless pump head). The pump supplier says, just like AHS, not to connect the pump head directly to the metal piping. AHS only sells the 1/2" couplings. I need (1) 1/2" and (1) 3/4". All of the other couplings I see locally (WW Grainger and a Mom & Pop supply house) are rated at 150F max temp. Sooo, my question is any ideas on a substitute? Maybe cpvc? I need something that will take CIP, Oxyclean or PBW. Suggestions, comments? Thanks - Dwain

__________________
Dwain is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-01-2009, 09:21 PM   #2
samc
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 5,420
Liked 55 Times on 52 Posts
Likes Given: 29

Default

All the photo's I have seen show people using metal couplings with the March pump, at least that's what it looks like. Some teflon tape and carefully screwing it on should do the trick. High temp plastic couplings are not so easy to find. Here is a chart of info on various plastics Comparison Table for Plastics.

CPVC is not rated to boiling temps.

__________________
samc is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-01-2009, 10:39 PM   #3
Catt22
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,998
Liked 57 Times on 55 Posts
Likes Given: 51

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwain View Post
My system is all stainless with the exception of the March Pump (when I hit the lottery, I'll get the stainless pump head). The pump supplier says, just like AHS, not to connect the pump head directly to the metal piping. AHS only sells the 1/2" couplings. I need (1) 1/2" and (1) 3/4". All of the other couplings I see locally (WW Grainger and a Mom & Pop supply house) are rated at 150F max temp. Sooo, my question is any ideas on a substitute? Maybe cpvc? I need something that will take CIP, Oxyclean or PBW. Suggestions, comments? Thanks - Dwain
I think you may be misinterpreting what is meant when they say not to connect the pump head directly to the metal piping. I would request some clarification on that from the mfg. or AHS. I would ask why not?

I think what they are getting at is they don't want the pump/motor hanging from the pipe only with no other support. I think that's what they should have told you instead. Metal fittings are not the issue. IMO, the solution is to mount the pump with an appropriate bracket then hook up whatever pipe/hose you want to, metal or otherwise. I would plumb it inline using pipe unions so it could be removed easily for occasional maintenance. I could be wrong on this, but I don't think so this time.
__________________
Catt22 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-01-2009, 10:44 PM   #4
GilaMinumBeer
In yo' garage, steelin' yo parts.
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
GilaMinumBeer's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Oblivion
Posts: 48,874
Liked 4958 Times on 4523 Posts
Likes Given: 60

Default

In-line with cat22 I think the intent behind the warning is to keep the pump from being directly coupled to a system that could potentially vibrate the holy crap out of a plastic head thus causing an unexpected failure.

Given the head is plastic (Ryton, IIRC) there is no galvanic corrosion potential so it all comes down to shear and the pump head will lose.

__________________
GilaMinumBeer is online now
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-01-2009, 10:50 PM   #5
samc
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 5,420
Liked 55 Times on 52 Posts
Likes Given: 29

Default

I don't think he is misinterpreting what AHS said as this is on the website:

The March Pump also requires two 1/2" NPT couplings. One is for the "in" connection, and one is for the "out" connection. To avoid damaging the pump head, the use of polypropylene couplings is recommended because threading metal fittings onto the pump head can damage the pump's threads. See the option below to add a pair of couplings.

What they fail to take into account is the working temperature range of polypropylene. Also it has been my experience that mating plastic threaded pieces, especially different kinds and manufacturers proves to be a challenge. Throw in high heat expansion/contraction and it gets harder to accomplish.

__________________
samc is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-01-2009, 11:08 PM   #6
Catt22
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,998
Liked 57 Times on 55 Posts
Likes Given: 51

Default

You may be correct, but it seems to me that what they are worried about is the possibility of you over tightening the fittings and damaging the threads. Properly threading metal fittings onto the pump head should not cause any damage at all, the key word being, "properly". I've been doing it for years without problems.

GilaMinumBeer has a good point about vibration potentially causing problems. I suppose expansion of the metal pipe should also be considered. That all depends on the system configuration. In any case, I would not hang the pump from the piping.

I would try to find some nylon pipe fittings. I'm using some from McMaster-Carr which are Garden Hose x 5/8" barb on all my hoses with no problems whatsoever. They are cheap too!

__________________
Catt22 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-01-2009, 11:31 PM   #7
Lil' Sparky
Cowboys EAC
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Lil' Sparky's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Honolulu, HI
Posts: 4,013
Liked 50 Times on 33 Posts

Default

Those threads ARE really soft. I know at least one person who accidentally (and easily) cross-threaded a brass fitting onto the pump head. It took a little filing on the threads to get things working right again. If you use brass/SS directly, just be really careful as you thread things together, and don't over-tighten the fitting.

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by duffman2 View Post
I dub this beer the Double Slutty Triple Nutty Bodacious Booty Brunette!
Lil' Sparky is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-04-2009, 07:45 PM   #8
Dwain
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Hill Country, TX
Posts: 1,137
Liked 5 Times on 5 Posts

Default

O.K.,
I've been researching this. I called March Pump. The March Pump Tech. said that he could not recommend a suitable material to use as a transition between the polysulphone (polysulphide) pump head and the stainless piping. He did say that the Guy that would know, wasn't in and asked that I call back later.
I worked in the chemical industry for many years. We routinely connected dissimilar materials. Even stainless and carbon steel to various plastics. We rarely needed anything to be food grade, so it normally wasn't an issue.
As most of us are aware, when dealing with high temperature, there is less danger of a "plastic" coupling failing than the chemical properties becoming unstable and "off gassing" into the product.
I spent quite abit of time with a Mcmaster-Carr Technical Rep. (Dave) trying to find a material that would handle 212F and still maintain its FDA rating. We looked at Polypropylene, Polyethylene, HDPE, LDPE, PTFE, Kinar, Nylon and sevaral others "blends" of Fluoroplastic fittings. The only thing that was close was schedule 80 CPVC. It is only good to 200F. The rest of the materials that started out FDA approved to begin with were only rated at 180F max. Kudos to Mcmaster-Carr's Tech. help section for all of their effort.
Then, I called March Pump back. I talked with Hans (apparently the Guy that knows), and he said that there was no problem hooking the pump directly up to the stainless piping. Just be sure that I didn't cross-thread, over tighten etc.. He said it would not void the warranty or otherwise violate the rules of international trade.
Sooo, I'm off to the shop to hook up my pump! Sorry for the long post, but I felt this was a very important piece of our hobby and wanted to get the straight info.
Now you know, and knowing is half the battle - G.I. Joe
Luck - Dwain

__________________
Dwain is offline
HomeBrewtality Likes This 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-04-2009, 07:52 PM   #9
Evan!
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Evan!'s Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Charlottesville, VA
Posts: 11,901
Liked 70 Times on 62 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

Yes, that's exactly why---I had the same question when I bought mine---and it's just because too many people have ruined their head by cross-threading. Just be careful!

__________________
MOSS HOLLOW BREWING CO.
Aristocratic Ales, Lascivious Lagers


.planned:
•Scottish 80/- •Sweet Stout •Roggenbier
.primary | bright:
98: Moss Hollow Soured '09 72: Oude Kriek 99: B-Weisse 102: Brett'd BDSA 104: Feat of Strength Helles Bock 105: Merkin Brown
.on tap | kegged:
XX: Moss Hollow Springs Sparkling Water 95: Gott Mit Uns German Pils 91b: Brown Willie's Oaked Abbey Ale 103: Merkin Stout
98: Yorkshire Special 100: Maple Porter 89: Cidre Saison 101: Steffiweizen '09 (#3)
Evan! is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-04-2009, 07:52 PM   #10
Bowtiebrewery
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Seymour, CT
Posts: 627
Liked 13 Times on 9 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

I felt the same... I purchased the MP from Austin HB and opted for their plastic fittings as well... just in case you know... But i believe I will be going with my metal fittings as I have already plumbed everything in Copper... We will find out today I guess

__________________
Bowtiebrewery is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply



Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Air Couplings with CO2- Why are they leaking? shortyjacobs Equipment/Sanitation 15 11-01-2009 10:09 PM
Nipples or Couplings? left field brewer Equipment/Sanitation 2 02-20-2009 02:29 AM
Where to buy couplings balto charlie Equipment/Sanitation 10 07-10-2008 02:30 PM
keg couplings ddknight Equipment/Sanitation 9 02-13-2008 06:06 PM
Polypropylene tubing DraconianHand Equipment/Sanitation 12 06-14-2007 08:02 PM



Newest Threads

LATEST SPONSOR DEALS