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**marcb** · 01-02-2013, 01:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattwood2000

Hi Marc what do you think the negative effect would be on having it too fine - just the drainage issue or something else?

Strictly how long it would take to drain the grain and/or rinse out to sparge. I definitely think that the 400 would work better for grain and I haven't seen any complaints about it for hops so it seems like the right way to go.

mattwood2000 · 01-02-2013, 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marcb

Strictly how long it would take to drain the grain and/or rinse out to sparge. I definitely think that the 400 would work better for grain and I haven't seen any complaints about it for hops so it seems like the right way to go.

OK thanks!

ScubaSteve · 01-02-2013, 04:58 PM

I actually made a whole basket using 30x30 mesh and found that the boil really didn't circulate well. The bubbles just went along the bottom and up the sides SEE HERE Of course, I was using a steamer basket so that definitely affected perfusion. I also know the hopstopper is made of about 30 mesh and has been known to clog.

Interestingly, 30 mesh is actually about 600 microns. For the 300 and 400 micron screens used in these hop hangers, that equates to 50 and 40 mesh....which are pretty dang fine...somewhere between table salt and flour.

So, I'd be interested to see how a 700-800 micron screen would perform...that would be 20-25 mesh and it would keep back the coarsest vegetable matter and let the REALLY fine stuff pass. The chart above describes 20 mesh for use with ground coffee...which when wet in a coffee filter is very similar to hop sludge. Ideally, it would not cause a plate chiller problems and allow maximum perfusion during the boil.

**wobdee** · 01-02-2013, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marcb

Hi Matt,

Contact Chad, he recently built a 13"x9" one for this purpose. I would probably recommend the 400 for this purpose though as the 300 might be too fine for BIAB.

Hey, that looks like my bucket! Lol, I've been working with Chad on this to prototype a s/s BIAB type system for my 8gl kettle. It should work nicely for my 2.5 gl batches. I hope to get it in operation soon and will give you all a good review on how it works.

**marcb** · 01-02-2013, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wobdee

Hey, that looks like my bucket! Lol, I've been working with Chad on this to prototype a s/s BIAB type system for my 8gl kettle. It should work nicely for my 2.5 gl batches. I hope to get it in operation soon and will give you all a good review on how it works.

Lol, sorry - not trying to steal your thunder! I was on the phone with Chad discussing something similar so he sent me some pics.... I look forward to reading about (and seeing pics) of your first brew day with it!

**marshallwms** · 01-02-2013, 07:46 PM

Does anyone know the mesh size for voile fabric which is used in so many BIAB bags? Or compared these buckets to voile? And lastly, has anyone used a voile bag as a hop sack?

twallin · 01-03-2013, 01:25 AM

Has anybody used this filter with a hop shot. The reason I ask is that I made a PTE clone last week and my hop blocker preformed horribly. I think the resin and hop gunk was too much and ended up losing 3/4 to a gallon of wort. Obviously I would inject the hop shot into the wort directly not into the filter.

Tomcat0304 · 01-03-2013, 05:45 PM

I used my new rig from Chad earlier this week and I am a little unsure on how it performed. I got it with the 300 micron filter, and was not getting very much flow through it with 2 oz of pellets in it.

Is there any consensus on whether these work well, or is the mesh too fine to allow for efficient diffusion of hop oils?

**Jukas** · 01-03-2013, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScubaSteve

So, I'd be interested to see how a 700-800 micron screen would perform...that would be 20-25 mesh and it would keep back the coarsest vegetable matter and let the REALLY fine stuff pass. The chart above describes 20 mesh for use with ground coffee...which when wet in a coffee filter is very similar to hop sludge. Ideally, it would not cause a plate chiller problems and allow maximum perfusion during the boil.

I could be completely wrong, but I'd be really nervous about using a 700 micron screen with a plate chiller. My completely unscientific concerns are I think pellet hops will break down to finer particulates than the average coffee ground and would allow enough material through to cause eventual problems with flow in the plate chiller.

I bet it would be fine with a CFC though.

I personally have been waiting to hear back from marcb on how he felt his 400 worked as I think I'll eventually switch to a plate chiller and am guessing 400-500 will be the sweet spot.

ScubaSteve · 01-03-2013, 06:45 PM

Either way, a plate chiller has to be backflushed...and in either case you'd be surprised at what comes out! They are a high maintenance piece of equipment with only a slight speed advantage over other systems. Once you figure in the maintenance and cleaning schedule, it actually makes your brew day longer. I say this because I have experienced it myself. But, I am intrigued by the whole thing just because I like the engineering side of brewing.

The sweet spot must lie somewhere between 400 and 700 microns...but I can tell you this...if you put the screen under the sink and droplets sit on top without moving through....that barrier will be magnified once you use pellet hops and the fibers plug the open space in the screen.

This is why I think there needs to be an "acceptable particle size" for the standard plate chiller...that is, a definition of how large the particles can get before the plate has issues (clogging, infections). If you know the maximum particle size, then you can select the proper filter and keep everything else out (going maybe 10% finer to err on the side of caution).

OR, use a 2 stage system. Even in industry, there is no one-size-filters all. Filters get overwhelmed by sludge and it is necessary to attack different particle sizes with different grades of filter. Use a very coarse hop hanger in the boil, then run to a grant with a fine filter....then chill it.

One cheaper way to do a 2 stage filtration could be using a hop hanger that lets some matter through...say 500 microns. Then you can separate the rest of the particles with a strong whirlpool and gravity rest. Breweries do this to lessen their filter loading because it is cheap and effective. So, this way you're free floating a fraction of the hops outside the hop hanger while the majority is restrained, and still keeping 95% out of the plate.