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Old 09-01-2009, 07:08 PM   #1
BarnabyHooge
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Default New B-Day March Pump Question

Among other great brewing items, my wife actually ordered me a March pump for my new sanke set up. I've read a bunch of threads re: QDs for this thing, and my only question is this. Why is speed such an issue when moving these things? I'd like to try to keep the extra expenses for the pump to a minimum and it seems like barbed brass garden hose fittings would work just fine.

Am I missing something?

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Old 09-01-2009, 07:41 PM   #2
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Yes & No! LOL...I am not a big fan of the QD's and your question is valid. The QD's are quick and easy, but not a great deal of time is saved mostly because you only need to switch hoses a few times during the brew session. I also think they are too expensive. Additionally, if you get the type with the built in check valves, these have a cross shaped piece inside which can get clogged with debris sometimes. These also appear to be somewhat restrictive for the same reason, although I can't say for certain as I have not used any.

The brass fittings you are considering will work just fine, but they can get very hot and you will need gloves to handle them. My solution was to buy the same type garden hose fittings made of nylon instead of brass. These are very inexpensive from here:

http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/pro...roduct_id=7732

FWIW, here's a couple of tips that may save you some grief. Use female fitting on all of your hoses and male fittings on all of your equipment. This permits you to attach either end of a hose minimizing the hassle factor. Buy large inside diameter hose. I use 5/8" ID braided PVC also purchased from U.S. Plastics. The reason you want large diameter hose is because the barbed fittings are restrictive. (the ID of a 5/8" barb is only nominally about 1/2"). Bigger is better within reason, of course. The commonly used pumps are designed for use with a minimum of 1/2" ID hose. This is most important on the suction side of the pump. The other suggestion I have is to keep the hoses as short as possible. This reduces the frictional losses and improves pump performance. Garden hose fittings have coarse threads which has two benefits. Coarse threads are faster to connect and disconnect and they are less likely to cross thread or strip. The GH fittings seal with a gasket and do not require tape or sealant as would pipe threaded fittings. Most of the pumps have 1/2" pipe threads and will require an adapter to convert to GH threads. You can use brass, SS or nylon adapters on the pump. I used brass simply because I already had them. You won't normally need to touch the adapter so it doesn't matter if it gets hot or not. If I were to do it over, I would get the nylon version of the adapters. Again, they are hugely cheaper than anything else and IMO, there is no down side. I have not stripped one yet, and if I do, I have spares that cost almost nothing at something like $0.69 each.

Get the right fittings and hoses the first time so that you don't do what I did and replace everything multiple times at a considerable expense. A lot of the guys on here prefer the high temp silicone hoses and expensive QD's and if you want to spend a lot of money, that's certainly one way to do it. Those will work and work well I am sure, but just not my preference.

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Old 09-01-2009, 10:26 PM   #3
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Wow, great response! I really appreciate it, very thorough.

The only thing then is the temp, which should be just fine at 200. I can't think of any reason I would be pumping near boiling water.

Looks like a US plastics order is in my future.

Thanks, the pump stays!!

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Old 09-01-2009, 10:34 PM   #4
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Barbed fittings will work, and are definitely cheaper. However, if you use a barbed fitting with flexible hose you'll want to have a hose clamp on that. Without one, you run the risk of leaking wort/water or sucking air into the pump which can cause it to lose the prime and stop working. The brass QD's were not cheap, but not expensive either and they offer flexibility of changing hoses as needed with no fuss. I think I spent another $80 on QD's and silicone tubing...but unless something breaks I'll never have to buy that stuff again. I'm sure you can find a cheaper route, but I hate buying equipment twice. I think brass QD's and silicone hose is a great alternative to SS QD's and hard plumbed lines. YMMV.

Cost Breakdown for Brass QD's and Food Grade Silicone Hose:
90 degree Female QD w/ 1/2" hose barb: http://www.mcmaster.com/#6739k68/=3g3s2m
5 x $8.01 = $40.05 (2 per hose, 2 hoses, 1 for boil kettle drain hose)

Male QD 1/2" NPT: 4 x http://www.mcmaster.com/#6739k59/=3g3t7n
6 x $1.93 = $11.58 (2-Pump, 1-Boil kettle, 1-HLT, 1-MLT, 1-Sparge Arm)

1/2" High Temp silicone hose: http://www.austinhomebrew.com/produc...ducts_id=10014
$2.10/ft. x 15 ft. = $31.50

Total Cost: $83.13
If you wanted to, you could cut out a few QD's for the sparge arm and the kettle drain hose and also cut down the hose length to 12 feet. You can also use the straight female QD's on some of those connections which are a couple bucks cheaper than the angled ones. Still a bit spendy, but well worth the price IMHO.

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Old 09-02-2009, 02:16 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoHeadsBrewing View Post
Barbed fittings will work, and are definitely cheaper. However, if you use a barbed fitting with flexible hose you'll want to have a hose clamp on that. Without one, you run the risk of leaking wort/water or sucking air into the pump which can cause it to lose the prime and stop working. The brass QD's were not cheap, but not expensive either and they offer flexibility of changing hoses as needed with no fuss.
How are your brass QD's connected to the tubing? Aren't they also barbed with clamps. Anyway, it's no big deal to use worm clamps or better yet the Oeticker type. Some kind of clamp is always required. The frightening possibility of losing prime no longer haunts me. Hasn't happened to me in ages.

Do you need to wear gloves when handling the hot brass QD's. That was a major issue when I was using brass fittings. The nylon GH ones were hugely cheaper and much less of a burn hazard. Those brass fittings get really, really hot sometimes.
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Old 09-02-2009, 02:36 AM   #6
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There's just no way after the haul I got from my b-day that I can go out and spend another $85 on stuff for the pump. I'll need to scale to measure the grains for the new mill, and that already got a frosty reception.

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Old 09-02-2009, 03:22 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catt22 View Post
How are your brass QD's connected to the tubing? Aren't they also barbed with clamps. Anyway, it's no big deal to use worm clamps or better yet the Oeticker type. Some kind of clamp is always required. The frightening possibility of losing prime no longer haunts me. Hasn't happened to me in ages.

Do you need to wear gloves when handling the hot brass QD's. That was a major issue when I was using brass fittings. The nylon GH ones were hugely cheaper and much less of a burn hazard. Those brass fittings get really, really hot sometimes.
Yes, they are attached with hose clamps...but that is where they stay. No switching hoses back and forth, which is what I thought the OP meant. If you're touching one that is attached to the boil kettle, then yes they are hot (of course). I use an oven mit or rag. I was thinking about wrapping them with something, but it's not that big of an issue. I don't mind the nylon ones, and to each their own...I can only advocate what works for me and what seems to me to be a more durable solution. Maybe if these ones ever wear out, I'll give the nylon ones a try as long as they are food safe and heat tolerant to at least 215F.
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Old 09-02-2009, 03:33 AM   #8
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Ok, the silicone tubing at US plastics is actually cheaper than the reinforced PVC.

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Old 09-02-2009, 04:14 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarnabyHooge View Post
Ok, the silicone tubing at US plastics is actually cheaper than the reinforced PVC.
Dunno, but a quick check at USP showed these:

http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/var...riant_id=54040 (this link doesn't seem to work and I don't know why not)

Reinforced Clear PVC Tubing Polyester Braid - US Plastic Corporation

I guess it depends on which tubing you select. I'm using the above 5/8" ID braid reinforced pvc. The equivalent in non-reinforced 5/8" ID silicone looks to be about $1.52 higher per foot. That difference isn't a big deal for me as I don't use that much of it. I think I have a total of less than ten feet. I like that the PVC seems to be stiffer. It doesn't kink or collapse as easily from what I have observed. The braid reinforced silicone is dramatically more costly at $12.35 a foot. That's way out of range for me.

Silbrade® Braid Reinforced Silicone Tubing - US Plastic Corporation
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Old 09-02-2009, 12:04 PM   #10
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Odd, I guess I was looking at the wrong braided hose. Thanks for all your help.

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