Happy HolidaySs Giveaway - Last Sponsor Giveaway of the Year!

Come Enter the BrewDeals/FastFerment Giveaway!


Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Equipment/Sanitation > Necessary to clean as well as sterilize? (Star San related)
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 06-15-2010, 10:31 AM   #1
brewhan
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 26
Default Necessary to clean as well as sterilize? (Star San related)

This may be a really silly question, but...

I've just got my hands on some Star San for the first time. In all the posts I've read on here which talk about Star San, no one seems to be talking about using a cleaning solution first.

So long as there's no visible dirt on my gear / bottles, is it ok to just use Star San?

I've also got some cleaning-solution-powder, from my local brewstore, made of "chlorine and cleaning soda". Should I be using this before the Star San?

Any help greatly appreciated!

__________________
brewhan is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-15-2010, 12:28 PM   #2
Beerrific
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Beerrific's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Georgia
Posts: 5,600
Liked 45 Times on 37 Posts
Likes Given: 9

Default

You are right, you want it free of visible dirt, organic matter, etc. For some things that can be as simple as a hot water rinse after using but for stuff that has a lot of gunk on it, you will need to use a cleaner.

__________________
Beerrific is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-15-2010, 01:17 PM   #3
wyzazz
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Atwater, OH
Posts: 4,266
Liked 41 Times on 40 Posts
Likes Given: 49

Default

First things first, you always CLEAN before you SANITIZE. A lot of us use OxiClean Free for cleaning, it's cheap and works great with no brushing! I do an Oxi Soak on all my stuff overnight just to make sure it's clean, followed by a good rinse, then I Star-San everything and drain. Bottle/Rack while the surfaces are still wet with Star-San.

Next, Sterilization is different than Sanitizing. We Sanitize in brewing, Sterilization requires specialized equipment with temps around 270F if I recall correctly for a certain period of time. Not trying to beat you up about it, just trying to pass on the proper info.

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Revvy View Post
And I'd like to see my 1.080 beers ready from grain to glass in a week, and served to me by red-headed twin penthouse pets wearing garter belts and fishnet stockings, with Irish accents, calling me "master luv gun," but we can't always get what we want can we? :)
wyzazz is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-15-2010, 03:52 PM   #4
david_42
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
david_42's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Willamina & Oak Grove, Oregon, USA
Posts: 25,656
Liked 136 Times on 129 Posts

Default

Quote:
"chlorine and cleaning soda"
I wouldn't use a chlorine-based cleaner. It can be a pain to rinse all of the chlorine off, as it takes very little to mess up the flavor of your beer. I use chlorine occasionally to bleach plastic items, but rinse, rinse, rinse.
__________________

Remember one unassailable statistic, as explained by the late, great George Carlin: "Just think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of them are even stupider!"

"I would like to die on Mars, just not on impact." Elon Musk

david_42 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-15-2010, 03:55 PM   #5
Catt22
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,998
Liked 57 Times on 55 Posts
Likes Given: 51

Default

Effective cleaning agents are also sanitizers although they may not be rated as such. The problem is that most require rinsing and the rinse water can sometimes contaminate the equipment. This is the reason that no-rinse sanitizers are used after cleaning. It's also good practice to use a sanitizer immediately before using the equipment. This may or may not be necessary, but it's certainly can do no harm. Star San is very economical to use and I use it liberally.

__________________
Catt22 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-15-2010, 07:30 PM   #6
malkore
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
malkore's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 6,922
Liked 33 Times on 31 Posts
Likes Given: 9

Default

Basically we're always making the assumption that the gear is already clean. You cannot sanitize something that isn't clean to start with (the organic residues will harbor all sorts of nasties, as well as be a possible food source for the nasties to grow).

__________________
Malkore
Primary: English Mild
On tap: Pale Ale, Lancelot's Wheat, English Brown Ale, Steam Beer, HoovNuts IPA
Bottled: MOAM, Braggot, Raspberry Melomel, Merlot, Apfelwein, Pyment, Sweet mead, Cabernet
Gal in 2009: 27, Gal in 2010: 34, Gal in 2011: 13, Gal in 2012: 10
malkore is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-15-2010, 11:59 PM   #7
Arkador
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 1,722
Liked 15 Times on 14 Posts
Likes Given: 10

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wyzazz View Post
First things first, you always CLEAN before you SANITIZE. A lot of us use OxiClean Free for cleaning, it's cheap and works great with no brushing! I do an Oxi Soak on all my stuff overnight just to make sure it's clean, followed by a good rinse, then I Star-San everything and drain. Bottle/Rack while the surfaces are still wet with Star-San.
+1
I often leave a fermenter sitting on the sidewalk overnight soaking with some oxiclean, then rinse it well, and put it away. give it a quick rinse incase it picked up some dust, sanitize, and use.
__________________
Arkador is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-16-2010, 12:21 AM   #8
billc68
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Prince Edward Island
Posts: 412
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default

I rarely clean, I give everything a very thorough rinse after use and make sure there is no visible dirt. Then I usually rinse with hot water again before sanitizing.

I have been using Idophor to sanitize, I have yet to have sanitation issues.

__________________
billc68 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-16-2010, 12:26 PM   #9
SOB
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Delaware, OH
Posts: 975
Liked 5 Times on 5 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by malkore View Post
Basically we're always making the assumption that the gear is already clean. You cannot sanitize something that isn't clean to start with (the organic residues will harbor all sorts of nasties, as well as be a possible food source for the nasties to grow).
If it's "clean to the eye" meaning free for visible dirt (i.e. rinsed off but no oxyclean etc.) why can you not sanitize? The "nasties" will all be killed by the sanitizer.

I personally take my equipment from the garage or basement which may have built up a nice layer of dust and give it a good rinse with warm water. Sanitize if need be (being used during\post boil) and have never had any issues. *knocks on wood*

So I say no, it is not necessary. Good practice to clean well before sanitizing? Hellz yeah! I just hate cleaning so try and skip corners
__________________
"So we were slammin' beers in the church parking lot..."

"I'm much too young to feel this damn old"
SOB is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-16-2010, 02:56 PM   #10
SpanishCastleAle
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 4,384
Liked 29 Times on 29 Posts

Default

I agree with 'clean first'. You could just clean and not sanitize and probably get away with that for a while too. Many times a beer will be contaminated just to the point that it only tastes a little 'off' but is fine otherwise. So imo, take the "I do this and never had a problem" accounts with a grain of salt (you'll see these over and over).

If you have hard water you may prefer PBW (5-star, same company as Star-San) over Oxiclean Free. The PBW rinses significantly better/easier than Oxiclean with hard water. PBW costs way more. But you can reuse it. I always save old PBW solution because I always have a gunked up fermenter or flask coming up in the pipeline. So I use fresh, hot PBW for kegs and carboy 'final cleaning' and use old stuff for soaking carboys/blow-off tubes to get the gunk off. PBW gets bottle labels off pretty well too.

FWIW, sometimes something will appear to be free of dirt/gunk but will have a thin film of oil/grease on it (not likely with brewing stuff but you never know with new/used equipment, especially kegs). A good way to see this is on glass/stainless to run water over the surface and look for a 'break-free' surface. The water should just run off like a sheet. If it 'beads', you have non-volatile residue (i.e. oil/grease film). Water will usually bead on plastic anyway so not a good test for plastic.

__________________
Early brewers were primarily women, mostly because it was deemed a woman's job. Mesopotamian men, of some 3,800 years ago, were obviously complete assclowns and had yet to realize the pleasure of brewing beer.- Beer Advocate
SpanishCastleAle is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply



Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sterilize Question..... Psymon Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 3 09-10-2009 01:34 PM
Sterilize Dextrose? TronCarter Wine Making Forum 1 12-21-2008 02:09 AM
Sterilize beer after fermintation? MESmith General Techniques 10 07-31-2008 07:59 PM
sterilize water? NM68657 Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 19 02-27-2007 12:24 AM



Newest Threads

LATEST SPONSOR DEALS