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-   -   Natural gas burner - need regulator? (http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/natural-gas-burner-need-regulator-347496/)

BeardedIdiot 08-14-2012 01:14 AM

Natural gas burner - need regulator?
 
Hey. I'm planning on purchasing one of the Natural Gas convertible Hurricane burners from Williams Brewing. I am going to purchase both the NG and propane valves, so that I can run the burner of of either. I will be ordering a propane regulator/hose combo either from them, or locally.

Burner: http://www.williamsbrewing.com/HURRI...AND-P2677.aspx

My question is, do I need to purchase a regulator for the burner if I'm using natural gas? I've searched here on HBT, but the few threads I've found seem very inconclusive as to whether or not they're actually needed. I would rather be safe than sorry, and since I'm hoping to be able to brew both on my back deck and in my basement (under an exterior ducted vent hood, obviously), I would like to do this right the first time.

I found this regulator on grainger.com:

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/MAX...egulator-4E224

It's fairly inexpensive, and seems to deliver exactly what I would need (11" wc pressure at the burner). I would mount this regulator on the brew stand close to my burner, and then use a flexible gas line to connect from the regulator to the house supply, either on the deck or in the basement.

What do you guys think about this?

day_trippr 08-14-2012 01:43 AM

"Max. Inlet Pressure (PSI) 2 For LP Gas, 5 For Natural Gas"

I don't think that regulator would work when you're hooked up to an LP cylinder.

You don't need a regulator when running off a residential natural gas hook-up. There's already a regulator at the entry point. You would need a regulator that provides 11" WC (~0.4 psi) when running on propane, but the reg you're looking at isn't it...

Cheers!

BeardedIdiot 08-14-2012 02:53 AM

So I can just plumb the burners straight into the natural gas pipes, with maybe a ball valve for crude adjustments and to be able to shut off the flow if I need to?

microbusbrewery 08-14-2012 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeardedIdiot (Post 4328823)
So I can just plumb the burners straight into the natural gas pipes, with maybe a ball valve for crude adjustments and to be able to shut off the flow if I need to?

Yep, I used this conversion valve on a 6" burner from agrisupply. It's very adjustable and cheaper than most needle valves.

day_trippr 08-14-2012 03:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeardedIdiot (Post 4328823)
So I can just plumb the burners straight into the natural gas pipes, with maybe a ball valve for crude adjustments and to be able to shut off the flow if I need to?

A needle valve provides pretty decent fine adjustment vs a ball valve. What many do is locate the needle valve right at the burner orifice, and place a ball valve up stream. That lets you tune the needle valve to your typical flame setting, and use the ball valve to turn the gas on and off and leave the needle valve set.

That will work when you're using natural gas. When you're going to use propane, you're still going to need a regulator to drop your propane source down to 11" WC...

Cheers!

BeardedIdiot 08-14-2012 03:13 PM

Ok, thanks guys. Sounds like I can get the burner setup for cheaper (and easier setup) than I was thinking.

Hopefully I'll be able to pull the trigger on a setup soon.

Hockeyman 08-14-2012 06:49 PM

I'm a gas fitter/inspector here in Manitoba and when I hear about people hooking up to natural gas burners on their own it sometimes scares me...

For starters you need to ensure the pipe supplying the burner can provide enough btu's for it to operate correctly as well as the whole piping system to be sized to handle the full load of all gas equipment running simultaneously.

From there you need to find out what pressure your local utility provides your natural gas pressure within your residence. This will determine if regulators are required for the burner to operate correctly.

Also, depending on the area and location you're operating the burner, combustion air may be required as well as make up air if you're ventilating air outside.

Stay clear from combustible material as well as ensure your flame does not impinge on your kettle as it will create massive amounts of carbon monoxide and you won't be back to tell us your brewing tales. This applies for both natural gas and propane.

I could spout off about permits and insurance but if you're on here looking to DIY then you don't care about this and if your house burns down due to your burner well... you're SOL for insurance money.

So if anyone has questions on Natural Gas and installing it send me a message and I'll do my best to help you out!

Bobby_M 08-14-2012 07:19 PM

You can find your regulated pressure by attaching a homemade manometer to your outlet. 99% chance you will see about 7" of water and that will not require further regulation. I think higher intermediate pressures are found in commercial buildings where runs to appliances and points of use are far away. The lower the pressure, the larger the trunk and branches need to be.

BeardedIdiot 08-15-2012 12:42 AM

Hockeyman: I appreciate your input, and while I do plan to do this DIY, i'm not exactly starting from scratch. I do plan on finding out the incoming pressure for my NG line before doing anything.

However, there is already a gas line run to the back deck, designed to run a natural gas grill off of. All I need is to get a ball valve connector to add on the end and I'm rocking.

As far as brewing in the basement is concerned, The location I am planning on brewing is a corner of the basement, where there is concrete floor and concrete walls up to 8 feet. The only thing flammable nearby will be the joists over my head, and those will be blocked by the venting system I plan to install. The gas line tubs within 8 feet of this point, so supply should not be an issue.


I have worked with natural gas line before, including having the work I've done inspected and passed by a licensed plumber (checking on the gas water heater hookups) and licensed HVAC tech (checking on the gas furnace hookup).

This is not something I will undertake lightly, no matter how cavalierly I may come off online. Thank you for your concern.

BeardedIdiot 08-15-2012 12:44 AM

The other option, besides in the basement, would be near the entrance of the garage, on a concrete floor, etc etc.


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