Natural Gas Brutus/1550 Build Questions

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HDIr0n

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So we are buying a new house, and now the uncertainty begins. I now have a HERMS setup for electric/propane with an E-HLT using 110v and a propane BK. So a lot of the houses I have been looking at/ have a contract in have Natural Gas in the Garage. There are less that have 210v to the garage, which I know can be had for a nominal fee (about 2k in my area). Soo I have been leaning towards Natural Gas. Soo my question is for those that have a HERMS setup with a brutus gas setup. I am not going to have a direct fired MLT as now I have a rubber coated bottom drain keggle that I want to control the temp through the HERMS coil in the HLT controlled by the PID(Auber) and gas solenoid valves. So how do y'all setup the BK? I was thinking that I would have a pilot vlave, and a solenoid valve controlled by a switch for a constant on or off and a ball valve to control gas flow. Is only 1 PID needed? I would like to display the temps on my control panel of the Mash/HLT/BK. Oh and I plan on doing a weldless 1550 design minus the tippy dump, unless I can figure out a way to do that.

Thanks,
-G
 
Well on the BK I just light the burner as no temperature control is needed with an analog thermometer on the front. If you wanted to see the temp on your panel then you could just install a thermowell on the BK and use the sensor from the MLT when you are done with it. As far as no flame on the MLT, I have always heated the strike water directly and then shut of the solenoid valve and let the other solenoid valve on the HLT keep the temp. This way you can heat you water up fast as otherwise I would think it would take forever.

So 2 solenoid valves on the HLT and MLT, 2 temp controllers, and 3 burners all with ball valves and only two with pilot as the BK is lit manually.
 
You can use digital temperature indicators where temperature control is not required. A very low cost alternative for lighting your BK burner is an electronic igniter (the type used for barbeques). Push-button convenience for under $30.
A needle valve is preferred over ball valves due to increased control over your flame. We install needle valves on burners that have gas valves also to dial in the perfect flame.
 
I do like the added security that if the flame does go out, it will turn the valve off so I don't have gas flowing and possibly cause a very bad situation. The HERMS coil is pretty efficient at keeping the heat constant in the MLT. I did insulate the crap out of it, and the rubber coating does help a bit. I just needed a more powerful solution than my current 1500w heating element that takes forever to heat up any significant amount of water. Do y'all know of a decent temp display that can be panel mounted? I do have Analogue temp gauges in all 3 vessels as a reference. I will be installing needle valves after the honeywell solenoids to control the flame.

Thanks,
-G
 
So after some thought and some digging here is my planned setup. I want to be able to later down the line to be able to switch to electric if I can (house dependent) without it being too painful, and also be able to run on NG or Propane if I buy the proper regulator.

NG setup
2x BG-14 Burners @ $32.49 each Link
2x Natural Gas Valve Orifice @ $7.00 each Link
2x Honeywell VR8200A2132 Standing Pilot Valve @ $60 each Link
2x Honeywell Q390A1046 24" Thermocouple @ $3.50 each Link
2x Honeywell Q314A4586 Pilot Burner @ $17.75 each Link
1x Honeywell AT175A1008 24v 75VA @ $27.95 each Link

Controllers/Panel
2x Auber SYL-2362 @ $42.55 each Link
2x Auber Platinum RTD. PT100 (6 ft. cable) @ $15.65 each Link
1x Auber ASL-51 @ $34.50 each Link

The only switches I plan on having are for my 2 pumps, control panel power, EPO, a on/off for the BK, and a MOA for the HLT.

My thought on these RTD's is that I could easily slide them into thermowells that I have in all 3 vessels to display temp and control the HLT for my HERMS setup.

I think most people go with the screw in type, does anybody have experience with these?

Any input/help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
-G
 
Here is one way that works well.

413OM%2Bl-YqL._SL500_AA300_.jpg
 
I'm still sticking my face down to burner level and lighting my pilot light torch and then backing it down to a reasonable flame level. It's time for a better igniter.
 
I just ordered all the materials to make my weldless stand. I am still going with a 1550/Brutus style build.
I ordered the preforated angle for the stand, 1 Auber PID, RTD, Auber Timer, Switches for the basic control panel I am going to build until I get the cash for another PID. I also ordered another BG-14 burner, Honeywell Standing Pilot Valve and everything necessary to get my HLT automated.
Hopefully next week I will have some progress done to post/document here.

-G
 
I just ordered all the materials to make my weldless stand. I am still going with a 1550/Brutus style build.
I ordered the preforated angle for the stand, 1 Auber PID, RTD, Auber Timer, Switches for the basic control panel I am going to build until I get the cash for another PID. I also ordered another BG-14 burner, Honeywell Standing Pilot Valve and everything necessary to get my HLT automated.
Hopefully next week I will have some progress done to post/document here.

-G

and someone owes you a quote...
 
So as far as the control panel goes,
Top left is control panel on, below that is an Auber 2362 PID for controlling the HLT burner, as well as the HERMS system. Next to the PID is a timer.
Below the Auber instruments I will have a MOA 3 position switch to go from Manual-Off-Auto for the HLT. Next to that is a 2 position switch for turning on
the Boil Kettle. The top right is the HLT agitator, and below that is the March Pump.

I will be adding at some point another PID mostly just for temp reading, I will put an emergency stop on the lid of the ammo can, and a buzzer alarm next to the HLT
agitator which might become a pump at some point.

I would love to know what y'all think.

-G
 
Here is an updated shot, I am still waiting for my control panel mount to show up.
Also I lowered the top shelf down since I can't drain directly into the BK anyways from the MLT.


IMG_0512 by HDIr0n, on Flickr


IMG_0513 by HDIr0n, on Flickr

Sort of how it will look when the mount shows up.

-G
 
I made a little more progress the past few days, here it is with some thermometers and the tubing how it would look like on brew day.


IMG_0525 by HDIr0n, on Flickr

I am still waiting on my mount for my control panel, and I have to order some extra tubing, and a whirlpool fitting as I think
I installed the thermometer a little high on the boil kettle if I were to do a 5g batch.
Let me know if y'all have any comments or suggestions.

Thanks,
-G
 
Sorry if this is a sore subject, but why is this a fail? It looks great so far...

Ian,
It produced great beer, it was the construction of the stand itself. It wasn't level, I didn't factor in the width of a keggle for the bottom tier So I couldn't remove the HLT without pulling a support beam for the top shelf. I made the top tier too short to drain into the top of the BK. It was overall a little wobblier that I wanted. I might go back to that design at some point, just with uni-strut as it is easier to make everything level and square. It was all those combined things together is why I considered it a fail.

-G
 
Good deal, G!

I keep looking at other systems and keep thinking about upgrading to all electric, but I know so little about the electronics of controlling it. It's been so long since I worked with electronics that the 555 timer chip was brand spanking new!

I was just rereading Randy Mosher's Radical,Brewing and ran across this that describes me so well...

for me, it's a little different. Of course I enjoy making and sharing homebrew, but I also love the hardware. The thrill of a good scrounge combined with the rewarding hard work of cutting, shaping and fusing of stainless steel suits me perfectly. Part NASA, part Frankenstein's lab, and part Snuffy Smith, I view Buckapound Brewery as functional kinetic art. Dinis Cottage easily replaces Buckapound.
 
Yeah, I wish I had the ability to go all electric without payink about 5k for higher amp service to my house, and then the resulting upgrades that would be needed for that.
 
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