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Old 12-20-2007, 02:31 PM   #1
Gammon N Beer
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Default LP vs Natural Gas

Hi

My brew partner and I will soon be needing an additonal turkey fryer.

We brew outdoors, year round on a patio. My home is heated by natural gas and it enters the house near the patio. There used to be a natural gas line stubbed from the meter to a gas fired cooking grill. I can easily use that stub to attach a natural gas burner placed on our brewing structure.

Does anybody have any experience with this? What do I need to know to move forward on the project?

EDIT: The original post led the reader to believe that I was using gasoline in my house for heating. Opps.

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Old 12-20-2007, 02:42 PM   #2
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I would use as much hard line as you can just to make the connection more rigid.
Obviously, there is limit to how much hard line you can use and still make the connection an easy disconnect type operation for a mobile sculpture but if it isn't going to move use as much hard line as possible.

You'll need an on off valve at the original connection at least but I would put one on the brew rig as well for convenience and emergency situations.

Get your self some pipe dope that is approved for natural gas connections and some test solution so you can test all connections for leaks prior to lighting the burner.

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Old 12-20-2007, 02:50 PM   #3
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And be sure to keep us updated. I'm in the camp of using natural gas for home heating/cooking and would love to tap into that system instead of the propane tanks. However, I've been apprehensive as I generally glaze over when people start talking about gas pressure. Not only that but I'm not ready to trade in my current propane cooker for a natural gas version. Lets us know how it goes.

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Old 12-20-2007, 04:12 PM   #4
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Figuring out if you'll have enough pressure for the BTU size of your burner is pretty tough. I plumbed a 1/2" pipe out to my garage a few years ago to run a 10Kbtu heater in there. It turned out that it wasn't enough heat for the size and being uninsulated. I then added a hose to run my large 100Kbtu burner for my keggle and found the pressure to be way too low. The major problem is that this single 1/2" is tapped off of another 1/2" line that already goes to my water heater. Well, 150kbtu competing for that pressure is just bad news. It burns OK when the water heater is not running, but I get some orange flame when it does.

I also have a line tapped off the main 1" trunk line going to my nat gas grill but that connection is 3/4". I ran the burner off that line and it was much better. Too bad that goes to the patio and not the garage.

In total, I've got a gas dryer, kitchen stove, hot air furnace and water heater all taking pressure off my trunk PRIOR to getting to the garage. If I really want to do this right, I'd probably have to upgrade my main line to 1.5".

To the OP, it's likely that the nat gas grill was something like 30kBTU so they probably only ran 3/8" pipe out there. If you can upgrade that stub to 1/2", it will work pretty well since you'd be tapping off really close to where your meter is. By the way, don't say gasoline ;-)

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Old 12-20-2007, 04:16 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gammon N Beer
Hi

and the gasoline enters the house near the patio.

Does anybody have any experience with this? What do I need to know to move forward on the project?
Holy Smoke you'd better not have an open flame anywhere near the Gasoline!

Sorry couldn't resist.
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Old 12-20-2007, 07:18 PM   #6
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I have a NG tankless water heater that burns about 120,000btus. A 3/4" gas line is required to support this if it is within 40ft of the meter. That grows up to 1 1/4" if you're traveling long distances. There is a chart on page 12 of the online manual. Check out this site, though it isn't exactly what you're talking about, it provides good reference on gas piping.
In my inquiry into the same, I've been given these links for burners by member WBC. Great prices!
145,000btu burner
200,000btu burner

Definitely keep posting if you go through with it!

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Old 12-20-2007, 07:51 PM   #7
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I just put in a natural gas line to my back patio where I brew but I'm not running on it yet. I have to finish building my Brutus Ten clone first.

I put a one inch black pipe line tee'd off the main house supply line on my side of the gas company's meter in my backyard. It's about 18 inches underground right below the meter. It runs 12 feet to the corner of my patio, then up out of the ground and into a gutted electrical enclosure that I mounted on a column. I terminated it inside the box with a brass shutoff valve that steps it down to 1/2 inch. The electrical box is padlocked so no one can get to the valve. A two foot yellow flex line runs out of the box, and it will connect to my brew stand.

The brew stand will have 1/2 inch hard piping and three 150k BTU burners. I have 7 inches of water column at the gas meter. I may need to increase that to 12 to 14 inches, but I won't know until I try it. My appliances in the house can handle 14 inches max, but if I step it up at the meter I will probably install another regulator downstream before the gas goes into my house to step it down to 10 or so to be safe. The gas company says I can go to 2 PSI at the meter, which is 55.5 inches of water column. I'm sure I won't need that much pressure.

Here are the 8 inch 150k BTU burners I bought. I doubt I'll get 150k BTU out of them at 7 inches of water column, but I know of no way to determine that.

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Old 12-20-2007, 08:07 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gammon N Beer
I can easily use that stub to attach a natural gas burner placed on our brewing structure.

Does anybody have any experience with this? What do I need to know to move forward on the project?
That is exactly what I use for my setup. I use a NG burner with 32 jets that is supposed to be good for 300,000 BTUs. It'll bring 20 gallons to a rolling boil in about 20 minutes. You just need a natural gas burner, a control valve (a simple ball valve rated for NG works), and some gas line to connect the whole thing.
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Old 12-20-2007, 08:32 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuri_Rage
That is exactly what I use for my setup. I use a NG burner with 32 jets that is supposed to be good for 300,000 BTUs. It'll bring 20 gallons to a rolling boil in about 20 minutes. You just need a natural gas burner, a control valve (a simple ball valve rated for NG works), and some gas line to connect the whole thing.
Yuri, I see on your original thread that you've used a 3/8" soft supply line. What size/length piping are you coming off of? Are you still using the 3/8" line?
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Old 12-20-2007, 11:45 PM   #10
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The stub from the house is 3/4 NPT, but I've got the burner supply line necked down to 3/8". I bet I could get even more heat out of it if I ran bigger line, but I really don't need it.

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