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Old 01-09-2007, 04:12 AM   #11
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That element is mean to be immersed. I am pretty sure it will burn out if run in open air. I know you aren't planning to run it in open air, but it will still be hot between the inner and outer copper tubes. I suspect it would burn out.

You could use kiln wire though.

The other thing you need is enough surface area.

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Old 01-09-2007, 12:21 PM   #12
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The element is designed to run dry inside of a pipe through the hotwater heater tank, as in the aluminum rv water heaters and glass lined steel water heater tanks. This style of heater has been around a long time, but due to the limited wattage mostly seen in 10-20 gallon water heaters for under counter installation.

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Old 01-09-2007, 12:56 PM   #13
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Torpshootr,

what was your reason for going for RIMS over HERMS?

Looks to me like you want to avoid using the HLT to heat the wort for some reason.

Have you thought about using a seperate heat exchanger? I use a 2l waterbath with a short coil of 8mm copper and an electric element and it works great.

The coil of copper carries the wort through the waterbath. The temperature of the wort exiting the heat exchanger (via a PID controller and the electric element) controls the temperature of the waterbath. So, as the wort gets too cool the waterbath heats up to bring it back up to the desired temperature.

In my opinion it gives the immediacy of RIMS (due to the waterbath only being 2 litres rather than 5+ gallons) with the security of not having the element in direct contact with the wort like a HERMS.

/Phil.

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Old 01-09-2007, 03:30 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seveneer
Torpshootr,

what was your reason for going for RIMS over HERMS?

Looks to me like you want to avoid using the HLT to heat the wort for some reason.
Phil,
You are exactly correct, I am trying to avoid using my HLT to heat the wort. Several reasons:

1. I want to avoid putting additional holes in my HLT thereby avoiding the risk of screwing it up or creating the possibility of leaks in it. from this perspective a standalone heater seems like a better idea.

2. I have read that HERMS systems tend to have slow response due to the small temperature change between the water in the HLT and the wort passing through the coil.

3. I would prefer to have my recirc pump operate continuously and control the temperature of the recirculating wort by controlling the heater. With a HERMS it seems that you have to control the temperature of the recirculating wort by turning the pump on and off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seveneer
Have you thought about using a seperate heat exchanger? I use a 2l waterbath with a short coil of 8mm copper and an electric element and it works great.

The coil of copper carries the wort through the waterbath. The temperature of the wort exiting the heat exchanger (via a PID controller and the electric element) controls the temperature of the waterbath. So, as the wort gets too cool the waterbath heats up to bring it back up to the desired temperature.

In my opinion it gives the immediacy of RIMS (due to the waterbath only being 2 litres rather than 5+ gallons) with the security of not having the element in direct contact with the wort like a HERMS.

/Phil.
I have seen this idea incorporated into several RIMS designs and it is my fallback plan - for all of the reasons that you cite. It certainly seems to address all three of the considerations that I listed above.

Do you happen to have a link to info on/pictures of your heat exchanger? I'm a big fan of not having to recreate the wheel if I don't have to.

Thanks for your response.

Ken
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Old 01-09-2007, 03:51 PM   #15
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Hi Ken,

have a look at my page linked from my signature. There's a page dedicated to the heat exchanger. It's not as comprehensive as I'd like but I'll happily answer any other questions you have.

Regards,
/Phil.

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Old 01-09-2007, 04:00 PM   #16
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Thanks Phil. I should have seen that link in my last post!

Cheers,
Ken

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Old 01-09-2007, 09:59 PM   #17
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http://www.hiheat.com/ has numerous flexible heater that might work for wrapping about a copper tube or whatever. I thought about having one in my mash tun and slowly circulate the the mash to remove the possibility of scorching. Never got around to buying one but spoke to an engineers about design specs.
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Old 01-09-2007, 11:39 PM   #18
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Those are pretty interesting heat pads. 1200 watts for $111 5 watts per in^2 is fairly gentle heating. IIRC, the hot water heater elements are 30 watts/in^2.

For comparison, a 1500 watt stove 6" diameter stove element is 53 watts per in^2, but then the pot base spreads out the heat a bit.

I'm getting my data from here:
http://www.hiheat.com/pdf/HHI_cat_heaters.pdf

Take a SS pot, wrap it with a few heaters and the contents will stay pretty warm. I suppose no better than a well insulated cooler. Add steam injection for doing step mashes. Stir it once in a while to prevent perimeter hot spots. Recirculate the wort a bit without heating it, to clarify it and to prevent thermal stratification. Could be the perfect mash environment.

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Old 04-14-2011, 12:30 PM   #19
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You should use nichrome wire..

I am currently working on designing a RIMS tube. I also thought it would be a great idea to use an external heating source. I would wrap nichrome wire around a 1/2" X 12" SS pipe with an elbow on the inlet and a tee on the outlet. Use a 1/2" K type thermocouple and a Auber PID running the RIMS.

After hours and days of research and design I'm still deciding on which route I will take. Using an external heating source or going with a most common used internal water heater element. I'm basically stuck in the middle of my two designs.

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Old 01-12-2012, 04:09 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikExF150 View Post
You should use nichrome wire..

I am currently working on designing a RIMS tube. I also thought it would be a great idea to use an external heating source. I would wrap nichrome wire around a 1/2" X 12" SS pipe with an elbow on the inlet and a tee on the outlet. Use a 1/2" K type thermocouple and a Auber PID running the RIMS.

After hours and days of research and design I'm still deciding on which route I will take. Using an external heating source or going with a most common used internal water heater element. I'm basically stuck in the middle of my two designs.
What did you decide on? I was looking at nichrome as a possible option as well.
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