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-   -   HERMS Coil Bypass and Check Valve (http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/herms-coil-bypass-check-valve-383509/)

bhill2625 01-22-2013 02:58 AM

HERMS Coil Bypass and Check Valve
 
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I have seen a few discussions regarding a bypass for a HERMS coil and I am thinking about different ways to accomplish this. I didnt see this covered anywhere in the forums, but there are a ton of threads to maneuver, so forgive me if this has already been suggested.

Why not use a 3 way ball valve (Type L or Type T) on the HERMS coil input with a stainless check valve on the HERMS coil output. This would remove 2 manual valves from your system and turn 3 valve maneuvers into 1. Not to mention the element of human error being reduced by a large percentage.

Without doing much bargain shopping, I can see that this valve system can be realized for about $50. 50 bucks doesnt make it any cheaper than the next idea, but certainly streamlines the process if you are using multiple valves in a HERMS rig.

This setup could easily be accomplished in manual valve systems as well as electronic automated systems.

Things I'm not sure about:
  1. Will the check valve impede the flow rate within the system?
  2. What is the cracking pressure of the valve AND does your system operating pressure exceed this?

Take a look at the diagram and let me know if you think this is a worthwhile venture.

Thanks!

thelorax121 01-22-2013 06:56 PM

Why/when would you want to bypass the coil? Wouldn't you just change the output from the pump to the next vessel after you finish circulating the mash?

WPStrassburg 01-23-2013 02:12 AM

If you're fully opening or closing the 3 way then there is no need for the check. Heck even with partial diversion if you are trying to get a consistent temp out of the herms there is no need for the check. With grain you are going to gunk it up and have rot in there at some point if any grain remains after cleaning.

What is your reasoning for the check?

jbaysurfer 01-24-2013 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WPStrassburg (Post 4815390)
If you're fully opening or closing the 3 way then there is no need for the check. Heck even with partial diversion if you are trying to get a consistent temp out of the herms there is no need for the check. With grain you are going to gunk it up and have rot in there at some point if any grain remains after cleaning.

What is your reasoning for the check?

I'm not OP, but isn't it to prevent your flow that you don't want going through the coil from doing so? Without it, at the T just in front of the check valve, some wort will head back to the MLT, and some will go back into the coil loop.

But maybe I'm over/underthinking it, feedback is welcome as I found this thread thinking the same thing, only I was going to use a standard valve instead...but the check valve takes one valve maneuver out of the process.

Edit, are you saying maybe the coil will already be full and that will automatically reroute the flow at that T to the mashtun? That makes some sense if I'm reading you right....

jbaysurfer 01-24-2013 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thelorax121 (Post 4813798)
Why/when would you want to bypass the coil? Wouldn't you just change the output from the pump to the next vessel after you finish circulating the mash?

This prevents having to handle the hoses and hot wort. I've had enough spills and minor burns from changing hoses that I'd rather just turn a valve to do the same thing.

tally350z 01-24-2013 05:48 PM

I only have a valve at the input of my herms coil(bottom). When I'm done recirculating I shut the put off and close the valve. I move the hoses without spilling.

OP, are you hard piping everything?

jbaysurfer 01-25-2013 06:24 PM

I hope this thread stays active. OP I'm wondering if you've taken the leap. I'm about to I think. I'm also thinking of putting a 3 way valve at the intake of the pump so that I can easily switching (without disconnecting hoses) from HLT to MT for the intake and also use the one on the outflow to control whether it flows through the coil or just back into the MT.

For you other guys..if you're still around...any new thought on the checkvalve? If it's unnecessary, I'll omit it completely. I bought the copper for my coil yesterday, hopefully I can get this going this weekend. Would love for my next brew to be HERMS!

tally350z 01-25-2013 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbaysurfer (Post 4825955)
I hope this thread stays active. OP I'm wondering if you've taken the leap. I'm about to I think. I'm also thinking of putting a 3 way valve at the intake of the pump so that I can easily switching (without disconnecting hoses) from HLT to MT for the intake and also use the one on the outflow to control whether it flows through the coil or just back into the MT.

For you other guys..if you're still around...any new thought on the checkvalve? If it's unnecessary, I'll omit it completely. I bought the copper for my coil yesterday, hopefully I can get this going this weekend. Would love for my next brew to be HERMS!

Yea, I think if you wanted to go that route where you don't have to switch hoses around the 3-way valve could go on the input of pump #1. That way you can drain from both the HLT and MT without having to change any hoses. You can then put a valve on the input(or output) of the herms coil to control the flow going through the coil. You could go another step and put a 3-way valve on the output if the MT. That way you can switch between pump #1 and pimp #2(if you have two pumps).

For me I just kept it simple and put the valve on the herms coil to control the flow through it.


EDIT* Another thing about the herms is if you were planning on using it to chill the wort I would have something else set up. It took me nearly an hour to chill my wort to 85*. I had to replace my water in the HLT twice with ice water. I went out and got a plate chiller and chilling has been shortened to nearly 10 minutes..

jbaysurfer 01-25-2013 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tally350z (Post 4826102)
Yea, I think if you wanted to go that route where you don't have to switch hoses around the 3-way valve could go on the input of pump #1. That way you can drain from both the HLT and MT without having to change any hoses. You can then put a valve on the input(or output) of the herms coil to control the flow going through the coil. You could go another step and put a 3-way valve on the output if the MT. That way you can switch between pump #1 and pimp #2(if you have two pumps).

For me I just kept it simple and put the valve on the herms coil to control the flow through it.


EDIT* Another thing about the herms is if you were planning on using it to chill the wort I would have something else set up. It took me nearly an hour to chill my wort to 85*. I had to replace my water in the HLT twice with ice water. I went out and got a plate chiller and chilling has been shortened to nearly 10 minutes..

I wasn't actually intending to put a valve on the outflow of the herms coil (another edit, I think I'm ok here, I see you actually have the valve on the coil input just like I'm planning on doing)......and was going to control the flow with the 3way valve on the outflow of the pump. From that valve, one branch is going into the coil, and one back to the MLT, do you see any problem with this idea?

Edit: if I use the herms coil as a chiller, it'd be a secondary chiller. I'm pretty stubborn about my chilling setup (2 ICs, 1 50' for inside the kettle, and a prechiller at 25' in a bucket of ice water) because it works so well for me. I could see possibly forgoing the prechiller and just using the 50' IC to bring it down to 90-100f and then using the herms coil in ice water to bring it down to pitch temp maybe...but right now I'm just focusing on controlling mash temps with it.....

tally350z 01-25-2013 07:13 PM

The only thing I see with this is when you recirculate through the herms coil and then you begin to sparge, and you don't go through the herms coil you leave that wort in the coil. I'm sure its nothing major but for me I would like to know I am getting all the sugars out of the grain. It might only be 1/2 cup depending on coil setup.


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