The Great Bottle Opener Giveaway

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Equipment/Sanitation > Grant for rims system

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 03-15-2011, 11:30 PM   #21
JonW
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
JonW's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Huntington Beach ☼
Posts: 1,444
Liked 83 Times on 50 Posts
Likes Given: 33

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wuertele View Post
That's just it, the rate is slow. I want to maximize the rate I can drain from the MLT without sticking it. That shortens my brew day and also increases the rate my RIMS can pump heat into the MLT for temperature steps.
I think I usually hit closer to 30 minutes instead of 45 (for 10 gallons), but what kind of times are you talking about?
__________________
Surf City Brewing (TM)

My Single Tier, 3 Pump, BCS-462, Brutus Build: http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/sing...ed-rig-204705/
My customized BCS-462 controller web interface: http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/hack...s-done-209388/
My 8 tap, 11 keg, upright Keezer build: http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/upri...1-kegs-371438/
JonW is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-16-2011, 02:15 AM   #22
wuertele
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
wuertele's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Menlo Park
Posts: 134
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default

So far I've only batch sparged, and I'm seeing about 45 minutes per batch. For the recirc system, I don't know yet, my RIMS is still under construction. Whatever the actual time turns out to be, my goal is to get as close to minimum as possible.

__________________

The all-grain home brewery registry: http://brewbot.org/breweries

wuertele is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-16-2011, 03:34 AM   #23
Catt22
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,998
Liked 57 Times on 55 Posts
Likes Given: 51

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wuertele View Post
That's just it, the rate is slow. I want to maximize the rate I can drain from the MLT without sticking it. That shortens my brew day and also increases the rate my RIMS can pump heat into the MLT for temperature steps.
+1 I also want to maximize the flow rate and without some way to know how much suction is being applied to the FB, you are flying blind. The problem is that there is a speed limit and it is variable. Exceed the speed limit and you will have a stuck mash guaranteed. The need for speed is primarily to maximize temperature ramp ups. A faster flow rate allows you to apply more heat while helping to avoid scorching, cavitation or both. I'm running a direct fired RIMS and circulate the wort for the entire duration of the mash and all the way to the beginning of the sparge. The vacuum gauge allows me indirectly monitor the degree of grain bed compaction. When circulating the wort, the grain bed will inevitably compact. How fast this happens is roughly proportional to how much suction is applied to the FB by the pump. I expect the grain bed to compact at least once during the mash and I can see it coming by monitoring the vacuum gauge. Grain bed compaction is not a big deal at all. It's a simple matter of stopping the circulation and stirring the mash well. Matter of fact, I find that frequent and thorough stirring is beneficial to the mash, so I would be doing it occasionally regardless. IOW, it's not even a minor inconvenience. A grant works just fine, but I want a much faster flow rate than gravity alone can provide. Obviously, this is all irrelevant if batch sparging.
__________________
Catt22 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-16-2011, 03:43 AM   #24
Catt22
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,998
Liked 57 Times on 55 Posts
Likes Given: 51

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wuertele View Post
That's just it, the rate is slow. I want to maximize the rate I can drain from the MLT without sticking it. That shortens my brew day and also increases the rate my RIMS can pump heat into the MLT for temperature steps.
I take a different tack when sparging. I prefer to sparge very slowly. The benefit IME is that the extraction efficiency is improved over a fast sparge. Now this may not seem important, but what I like about it is that the wort gravity will still be fairly high when I stop the sparge and have collected the desired runoff volume. When sparging more quickly I found that I had to cut off the sparge prematurely as the gravity would drop too low before I had collected my target pre-boil volume, then I would have to add make up water which dropped my OG. The bottom line for me is that I believe that I can obtain a higher quality of wort with a slow runoff. The finished beer seems to generally confirm this, but that call is purely subjective as with pretty much all beer evaluation, so YMMV blah, blah, blah...
__________________
Catt22 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-16-2011, 07:35 AM   #25
wuertele
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
wuertele's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Menlo Park
Posts: 134
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catt22 View Post
I take a different tack when sparging. I prefer to sparge very slowly. The benefit IME is that the extraction efficiency is improved over a fast sparge. Now this may not seem important, but what I like about it is that the wort gravity will still be fairly high when I stop the sparge and have collected the desired runoff volume. When sparging more quickly I found that I had to cut off the sparge prematurely as the gravity would drop too low before I had collected my target pre-boil volume, then I would have to add make up water which dropped my OG. The bottom line for me is that I believe that I can obtain a higher quality of wort with a slow runoff. The finished beer seems to generally confirm this, but that call is purely subjective as with pretty much all beer evaluation, so YMMV blah, blah, blah...
Ah, this is fascinating. I've been wondering about the flow mechanics of sparging. In another thread, someone was claiming that batch sparging is faster than fly sparging because you can drain a mixed-up mash faster than one that is on the edge of being compacted. I wonder if you could increase your sparge efficiency and also your speed by mixing up your mash periodically.
__________________

The all-grain home brewery registry: http://brewbot.org/breweries

wuertele is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-16-2011, 09:17 AM   #26
Jaybird
Vendor
HBT_SPONSOR.png
HomeBrewTalk 2012 Vendor Giveaway Participate
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
Jaybird's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Nor*Cal
Posts: 5,314
Liked 242 Times on 169 Posts
Likes Given: 85

Default

I have a few picts in my gallery of my system. I started using a grant many years ago and found it to be very useful. I (when I brew) do back to back 12 gallon batches. My grant lets me have them both going at the same time. Orfy started a thread on my system years ago. I will try and find it and give you a link.
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/jaybird-brewery-38923/
Cheers
Jay

__________________
Need a False Bottom for your Keg, Kettle or Cooler?

I have been making custom False Bottoms for just about everything since 2008

Nor Cal Brewing Solutions, Reddings local homebrew store
(530)243-BEER and (530)221-WINE


Still have questions PM me here or hit the website.

http://www.norcalbrewingsolutions.com and like us on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/NorCalBrewingSolutionsfor Facebook only promos too
Jaybird is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-16-2011, 01:26 PM   #27
pola0502ds
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 832
Liked 2 Times on 2 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wuertele View Post
I started a grant thread last year and got some good info: http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/cont...-grant-173595/

I'm actually implementing an idea that I got from that thread, which is a pump feedback loop instead of a grant. I haven't tested it yet and I'm not done documenting it, but here's a photo and a BOM: http://brewbot.org/content/rims-and-pump-assembly

This basically uses a diverter valve to feed a part of the pump's output back to its input. The reasoning is this valve can be trimmed to control the pressure or vacuum applied to the mash drain, and even in its lowest forward-flow setting (no drain from the mash), it still keeps liquid flowing over the heating element, preventing scorching.
Your website, what is it for? I see that there is a member login..
__________________
pola0502ds is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-19-2011, 10:01 PM   #28
wuertele
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
wuertele's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Menlo Park
Posts: 134
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pola0502ds View Post
Your website, what is it for? I see that there is a member login..
You're asking about http://brewbot.org? The member login isn't really for anything yet. I have been collecting brewing system data and I use this site to publish it, hopefully in a form that is useful to people. The registry can be viewed without logging in, so there's really no use for logins at the moment.

Eventually I will also use the site for my own brewing system blog. I have written a custom drupal module that allows me to document assemblies and sub-assemblies, and I would be willing to make that functionality public. I have no clue whether people would be interested. There are plenty of on-line forums for people to use already, the only unique thing about my site would be the assembly browsing functionality.
__________________

The all-grain home brewery registry: http://brewbot.org/breweries

wuertele is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-20-2011, 11:25 AM   #29
pola0502ds
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 832
Liked 2 Times on 2 Posts

Default

I would love tha feature

__________________
pola0502ds is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-21-2011, 11:14 AM   #30
pola0502ds
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 832
Liked 2 Times on 2 Posts

Default

So for people that don't use a grant, how do you prevent your pumps from compacting the grain bed on a single tier system? I am going to have a RIMS tube and I fear that without a grant i will compact the grain bed..

__________________
pola0502ds is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Grant users? Gabrew Equipment/Sanitation 12 01-25-2012 02:51 PM
Controlling RIMS with a grant wuertele Equipment/Sanitation 12 04-17-2010 10:21 PM
RIMS System plans blackheart Equipment/Sanitation 44 05-25-2009 04:11 PM
Check out my new RIMS system! polecreek Equipment/Sanitation 14 01-28-2009 09:35 PM
Single Tier - Grant or No Grant? FlyGuy Equipment/Sanitation 25 01-24-2009 02:43 PM